Talk:𐡆𐡌𐡍𐡀
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Victar
Place of Akkadian and relation to PIE?
[edit]Does Akkadian 𒌗𒋞𒂵 (itisimānu, “season, time”) belong here? Compare Hebrew סיוון (siván), English Sivan. And how is the word related to something in PIE? I cannot see a reconstructed word. --Anylai (talk) 10:07, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
- I think there used to be a Indo-European explanation for Persian "zamân", but its deriving from Akkadian makes more sense (even if such coincidences exist, of course, they are rare). Another question, however, is Arabic. The regular outcome of the Proto-Semitic is زَمَن (zaman) and I suspect that زَمان (zamān) was borrowed from Persian or another language of the Fertile Crescent region. Otherwise it could only be an independent formation from the root, but it cannot be inherited. 90.186.72.21 15:18, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
- There is. Panaino, Antonio (2017) “The Origins of Middle Persian Zamān and Related Words: A Controversial Etymological History”, in Iran & the Caucasus[1], volume 21, number 2, Leiden: Brill, , pages 150–195. I am not gonna gather all this stuff and repeat the paper in secondary quality, only note that according to there p. 163 Northern Kurdish gav (many more meanings on Kurdish Wiktionary, including “time”) is from Proto-Iranian *gā́man rather than Proto-Iranian *gā́ma we give at the Proto-Indo-European *gʷeh₂-. So there is a Proto-Iranian page @Victar only can create to show that this Proto-Semitic page (which I haven’t created but Ivan Štambuk in 2008) should be deleted, which would be very satisfying, implying that Nöldeke was right all the time about the Ethiopian being foreign (confirmed in Panaino’s paper by other expertise) and the Arabic term is another Aramaic loanword. It is absurd enough to think it as an isolated inheritance. The Arabic word for time is وَقْت (waqt), also حِين (ḥīn) and in the meaning of a counted occurrence مَرَّة (marra), you see all new formations (though all have Semitic root relatives), the rest are special words, generally borrowed. Fay Freak (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak, Anylai: Here you go: *ǰámaHnaH. --
{{victar|talk}}23:56, 21 July 2021 (UTC)- @Fay Freak: All for this being moved to an Imperial Aramaic entry, 𐡆𐡌𐡍 (zmn). --
{{victar|talk}}03:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)- @Victar: This sounds also great, and has examples on Wiktionary such as 𐡌𐡎𐡂𐡃𐡀 (msgdʾ, “place of worship”) (here in the emphatic state—note that 𐡆𐡌𐡍 (zmn) is also attested in the emphatic state 𐡆𐡌𐡍𐡀 (zmnʾ)). Though I am not sure that it isn’t heterodox to present Imperial Aramaic as the ancestor of all later Aramaics, other linguists just don’t display long descendant lists, and it has the advantage of the forms being found in the mainspace. I will take a sleep on this. Fay Freak (talk) 03:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: I was thinking an entry like this: User:Victar/𐡆𐡌𐡀𐡍. --
{{victar|talk}}20:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: I was thinking an entry like this: User:Victar/𐡆𐡌𐡀𐡍. --
- @Victar: This sounds also great, and has examples on Wiktionary such as 𐡌𐡎𐡂𐡃𐡀 (msgdʾ, “place of worship”) (here in the emphatic state—note that 𐡆𐡌𐡍 (zmn) is also attested in the emphatic state 𐡆𐡌𐡍𐡀 (zmnʾ)). Though I am not sure that it isn’t heterodox to present Imperial Aramaic as the ancestor of all later Aramaics, other linguists just don’t display long descendant lists, and it has the advantage of the forms being found in the mainspace. I will take a sleep on this. Fay Freak (talk) 03:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: All for this being moved to an Imperial Aramaic entry, 𐡆𐡌𐡍 (zmn). --
- @Fay Freak, Anylai: Here you go: *ǰámaHnaH. --
- There is. Panaino, Antonio (2017) “The Origins of Middle Persian Zamān and Related Words: A Controversial Etymological History”, in Iran & the Caucasus[1], volume 21, number 2, Leiden: Brill, , pages 150–195. I am not gonna gather all this stuff and repeat the paper in secondary quality, only note that according to there p. 163 Northern Kurdish gav (many more meanings on Kurdish Wiktionary, including “time”) is from Proto-Iranian *gā́man rather than Proto-Iranian *gā́ma we give at the Proto-Indo-European *gʷeh₂-. So there is a Proto-Iranian page @Victar only can create to show that this Proto-Semitic page (which I haven’t created but Ivan Štambuk in 2008) should be deleted, which would be very satisfying, implying that Nöldeke was right all the time about the Ethiopian being foreign (confirmed in Panaino’s paper by other expertise) and the Arabic term is another Aramaic loanword. It is absurd enough to think it as an isolated inheritance. The Arabic word for time is وَقْت (waqt), also حِين (ḥīn) and in the meaning of a counted occurrence مَرَّة (marra), you see all new formations (though all have Semitic root relatives), the rest are special words, generally borrowed. Fay Freak (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2021 (UTC)