User talk:Anylai

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Again, welcome! Ultimateria (talk) 21:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


Hi. Please note these formatting improvements. By the way, why are you calling Old Turkic, which is an East Turkic language, the ancestor of Turkish, which is a West Turkic language? --Vahag (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Russian-Bashkir dictionary[edit]


If you're interested in some Bashkir verbs, you could find them via Russian in this dictionary, which is not bad, if you use the right word in the right form and you know its meaning. Select option "русско-башкирский" (Russian-Bashkir). The Russian words shouldn't contain accents. E.g. to sing (петь) - йырлау (yïrlaw), to work (работать) - эшләү (ešläw), to dance (танцевать) - бейеү (beyew), etc. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:53, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @Atitarev. It could surely do the job. I think I will try my chance with verbs with simple meanings and search for cognates there next time. --Anylai (talk) 23:26, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
It's OK. Please note that Russian verbs may be in either perfective or imperfective form, sometimes you need to try both. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)


Merhaba, sizi buralarda yeni görüyorum. çıngı konusundan gördüm. --123snake45 (talk) 16:01, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

@123snake45 Merhaba, bir süredir türkçe başlıkları geliştirmeye çalışıyorum. Çıngı konusu öyle denk geldi, tartışmaya bir şeyler katmak istedim, dilbilim uzmanlık alanım değil yoksa. --Anylai (talk) 16:39, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Ben de boş vakit buldukça katkı yapmaya çalışıyorum. "çıngı" konusu daha hiç birşey. Buna benzer gerçek olmayan çok sözcük vardı. Kimse yüzde yüz dil bilimi uzmanı değil. Ancak sahte kaynaklarla sözcükleri gerçekmiş gibi millete yutturmaya çalışan şahıslar var. --123snake45 (talk) 17:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Evet çok uydurma kelime ekleyen var mesela sıvıtçıl, binecek, arayacak, buzulkuşu, suvgan tanıdık geliyor mu? Google'a tırnak içinde "çıngı akımı", "çıngı motoru", "çıngı kablosu", v.s. yazıp arat, sonuçları gör. --2001:41D0:1008:88F:BCE1:3EFD:D470:8498 08:32, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Uydurma kelime çok da önemli değil literatür tarafından benimsendiği sürece, sonuçta dilimiz bunlarla dolduruldu zamanında. Yalnız "binecek", "arayacak" uydurma olamaz, bunlara yüklenenen anlamlar uydurma olabilir. Wiktionary'nin bu yönde bazı kuralları var, kelime literatürde yer almış mı diye bir onaylanma sürecine girer, başarısız olunursa silinir. --Anylai (talk) 05:47, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


Hi. Will you expand kalık and قالیق (qalyq) by adding the missing senses, as well as confirming that the derivation from kalmak is transparent and obvious. --Vahag (talk) 07:36, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi Vahag, kalmak is a very challenging verb, it is used a lot as an auxiliary verb, evde kalmak is one of them, meaning "to pass the age to marry, be left at home". Apart from kalık, similar to your Armenian example evde kalmış also means “old maid, spinster”. For the other senses I noticed that Ottoman verb also means "to be deficient, be short", so I added it and they are justified too. --Anylai (talk) 10:05, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, that was helpful. --Vahag (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

ümzük 'short pieces of thread'[edit]

Hey Anylai, do you know anything about this word? Clauson only mentions it as "hardly to be connected with SW xx Anat. ümzük 'short pieces of thread' SDD 1431" under (supposedly) unrelated Karakhanid 'ümzük'. I wonder if it might be related to Mongolian имрэх (imreh, to twirl, to spin thread) (the Kazakh word is too close to Mongolian, I suspect that it's a case of a recent borrowing, although I don't know in what direction) Crom daba (talk) 15:41, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@Crom daba Hi, unfortunately I have never heard of it, but looks like such a word and sense exists regionally, in some regions also confused with emzik (pacifier). You can mention the Karakhanid word, I have looked up some sources on Kashgari's dictionary and some connect the word to Turkmen ümzük atmak (to move forward very fast), basically in an auxiliary form. Perhaps it is also related to Turkmen ümüdik (bent forward), but this should rather be derived from *üm-, *ümü- with no clear meaning and attestation within Turkic whatsoever.
The closest sounding Turkic words that come to my mind are *egir- (to spin) and *ebir- (to turn) which dont seem to match your word nor the Kazakh one. There is a reconstruction for your word here and there is no mention of a loan from Mongolic into any Turkic langauge. --Anylai (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, that reconstruction seems legit, I'll add it to the entry. Crom daba (talk) 23:03, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Haladj materials by Doerfer[edit]

Hey, I just got this and I thought I'd suggest it to you. Despite the name, a lot of its content is about reconstructing Proto-Turkic, it has stuff on reconstructing vowel length, although mostly based on Turkmen, Yakut, Karakhanid and Haladj; Gagauz, Sayan and Yugur are merely mentioned. Also on reconstructing a/ạ, e/ẹ, palatal diphthongs and medial mid-height vowels. I don't agree with some of his conclusions (he reconstructs three vowel lengths, and I think that ạ spurious), but it's a good overview of the materials and theories. Crom daba (talk) 01:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks Crom daba, i will be on the lookout for it. Apparently there are some materials belonging to Doerfer in the library of the university but looking at the titles I assume they are in German. --Anylai (talk) 09:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
SWIM managed to steal it via Internet, although of course I wouldn't advocate for such a thing. Crom daba (talk) 11:12, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Ottoman dictionaries[edit]

Hey, could you suggest some Ottoman/Old Anatolian dictionaries? I only have Budagov, but using it is not very time-effective. Crom daba (talk) 18:49, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

The best ones are in Armenian (Apikyan, Bedros Zeki). You won't be able to use them. In European languages I recommend Kelekian and Redhouse. --Vahag (talk) 05:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks! Might you have a summary of how Redhouse's transcription corresponds to phonemic IPA or Turkological transcription? Crom daba (talk) 08:52, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't, sorry. --Vahag (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I actually use a some sort of a search engine on the internet. I knew the older form of pınar,so i tried my luck, and it was there, though the dictionaries in their database are late Ottoman too. For old anatolian turkish i have no dictionary. I can only cite the transliterations i find from nishanyan or clauson. --Anylai (talk) 20:00, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Swahili etymologies[edit]

Hello. Some unreliable sources mention the Swahili words bahasha and tapo as coming from (Ottoman) Turkish. Do you know of any words in Turkish that would be likely to be the source of these? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:27, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello @Metaknowledge, unfortunately nothing comes to my mind regarding these words being Ottoman borrowings. Ottoman is a tricky language with lots of loanwords, but these words at least do not sound Turkic to me, they may ultimately be from some other language. perhaps tapo is from طاپو (tapu, act of homage, title-deed of a feudal fief) (see Turkish tapu (deed, land register)), ultimately from tap- (to worship, serve). But this is just speculating.
Hmm, I guess not Turkish then. Thanks though! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:05, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
The Turkish word that your sources have in mind is probably Ottoman Turkish طابور (tabur). --Vahag (talk) 09:38, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Category:Tbot entries (Turkish)[edit]

Hey! Could you have look at some of the (currently 335) entries at Category:Tbot entries (Turkish)? They were created years ago by a bot, and need checking. If you do, could you remove the Tbot tag at the bottom of the pages? Thanks. --P5Nd2 (talk) 10:34, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Western Yugur[edit]

Hey, would you be interested in creating an orthography for Western Yugur with me? Sadly, at 5000 native speakers I don't think it will get an official one soon, and it would be good if we could make entries.

The phonology is very interesting, it has both pre- and postaspiration (reflecting original vowel length, but only before obstruents) and a vowel system that slowly seems to be shifting its frontness distinction onto consonants.

If you're interested, I suggest checking out Roos' work, especially her dissertation (in English) that you can find at the "Wester Yugur steppe" (a really cool site). Crom daba (talk) 13:53, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Crom daba, my Western Yugur knowledge is very limited, I will check the reference and look into the language. Thank you for wanting to work with me on this, I would love to put some basic vocabulary up on wiktionary with somewhat consistent orthography. --Anylai (talk) 15:00, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

*ï ?[edit]

Are we (finally) switching to *ï instead of *ɨ? Crom daba (talk) 02:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I started to think we should. Though I am not sure who is going to deal with massive amount of ɨ's that is already in use. What do you think about *j->*y? --Anylai (talk) 06:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
I'd prefer *y. Crom daba (talk) 09:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Karakhaid vowel marks[edit]

Merhaba, did they really have vowel marks, inclusively sukūn, on every attested word? Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 19:40, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Most Karakhanid material is from Kashgari's dictionary, and he put in great effort to faithfully reproduce the Turkish language. Crom daba (talk) 22:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Most of what I do is really copy the attested words from Besim Atalay. So I suppose there was vowel marks in Kashgari. However I must admit I started as a noob to Arabic script when trying to add Karakhanid words and had great difficulty. Any suggestion is welcome regarding this topic. --Anylai (talk) 18:13, 22 March 2018 (UTC)