Talk:gorgerin

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French sense to do with Egypt[edit]

The last French sense, "In Ancient Egypt, an heavy and rather bulky jewel which rested on the chest skin or a short-sleeved shirt, and tied at the back.", has since it was added in 2010 been tagged {{attention|fr|what's the word for this in English?}}. Is it a "Pectoral (Ancient Egypt)" or pendant, perhaps? Or a whole collar? (This site has images of pectorals, pendants on necklaces, and collars, if that helps with mapping the thing to an English word.) Pinging User:PUC who speaks French and User:Vorziblix who may know what the thing is and hence what the terms for it in English are. Incidentally, we're missing the Egyptian sense at pectoral (we only have the Christian sense). - -sche (discuss) 23:17, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

“Pectoral” is what I immediately thought of after reading the definition; I think that’s the word English-speaking Egyptologists would most likely use in reference to these artifacts. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 07:06, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok; the reason I wondered if it might be a collar is (I should've mentioned this, oops) that fr:gorgerin's illustration of a "détail d'un gorgerin" is this, which looks like the centrepiece of [a collar like the one here. - -sche (discuss) 20:53, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, well, such an object might be referred to as a collar, but so long as its weight rests on the chest, it can also more loosely be labelled a pectoral. ‘Pectoral’ is a broader term that more prototypically refers to objects like the third picture down on the jewelry page you’ve linked, but it’s not necessarily restricted to them, and the boundaries with ‘collar’ are far from sharp. Compare statements at museum collections that might refer to certain objects either way: here ‘Incised lines indicate the design of a beaded collar, called a pectoral, worn against the chest’; here the shabti wears a ‘multi-stranded pectoral collar/necklace on the upper torso and shoulders’. See also an image search result for ‘Egyptian pectoral’, which turns up plenty of collars labelled pectorals (unlike the museum pages, not necessarily evidence that professionals use the term that way, but indicative of colloquial usage). All told, if the French term prototypically means what we describe in our definition but more peripherally can include beaded collars and the like, ‘pectoral’ is the ideal English match. One might also say something like ‘pectoral or broad collar’ to be more explicit about it if one preferred. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 14:44, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]