Talk:military prison

RFD discussion: February–July 2023

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military prison

Sense "prison operated by the military", quite clearly it's an SOP with the meaning of "military"+"prison". Perhaps the only argument that could support the term's retention is WT:LEMMING.廣九直通車 (talk) 03:45, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Delete as SoP. — Sgconlaw (talk) 05:39, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Comment This is a clear SOP but it could function as a translation hub; at least two of the given translations are single words. Benwing2 (talk) 07:01, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

We probably should have military justice, and we have military police, so it is logical to keep it as an institution. I doubt that it is “just a prison” consequently; considering also that it has purposes different from what is usually understood “a prison”.

Prison is for criminals and suspects and some civil law and other public law detention cases (in Germany: Ordnungshaft, Persönlicher Arrest; Erzwingungshaft, Zwangshaft; the historical debtors' prison probably was partially in separate buildings and so also warrants an entry; Abschiebungshaft “detention for deportation” recently was also equal to criminal detention but this has been found a human rights violation so there are also separate facilities for it now)

A military prison may be for those who are only subject to disciplinary action or are prisoners of war (notably not SoP either). In accordance with this typicity observation, Wiktionary defines prison very restrictively as a building “especially of long-term confinement for those convicted of serious crimes or otherwise considered undesirable by the government“, which is barely an applicable definition for a building housing soldiers. Fay Freak (talk) 07:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Not to be confused with a prisoner-of-war camp. DonnanZ (talk) 10:02, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

That’s pertinent. One should look in how much that is legally supposed to differ from typical military prisons. Fay Freak (talk) 21:00, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Fay Freak, I think you have digressed way too much by mentioning different types of prisons in Germany. Also I think your Wikipedia definition (especially of long-term confinement... undesirable by the government) was not that useful here: there's plenty of prisons worldwide that hold both convicted criminals and pretrial suspects, in which the actually-used meaning is much broader.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:39, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

That’s what I say, criminals and suspects. The definition (especially of long-term confinement... undesirable by the government) is from Wiktionary. But my point was that this or similar is the usual implication of bare “prison” or what its purpose is understood as (and additionally some other purposes I am only informed about for Germany, so one may doubt the accuracy of our definition), while military prisons are more neutral towards this: Different purposes, particular facility worth inclusion? Fay Freak (talk) 21:00, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Inclined to keep. PUC – 09:42, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

military prison or brig, -- there was something else, 'lockup', for the lower ranks, often you have to use calques or combinations like these where distinct and separate terms exist in other language ex. russian VOENKOMAT for conscription office, enlistment office ... the volunteer editors ofsuch a dictionary and language project of your stature (your -- that is, you , as WIKTIONARY) -- should know that terms and ideas don't map across languages one-to-one .. so maybe this isn't used very much in english where it couldn't be replaced or << broken down >> into its constituent parts and still clearly carry meaning .. but if there are textual references as the earlier users said I can't oppose to retain a term for its use in understanding other languages Technicalrestrictions01 (talk) 14:06, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

VOENKOMAT i think is actually an abbreviation for << military commissariat >> voennij kommisariat ? hundreds if not thousands -- probably thousands actually of these soviet bureaucratic conjunctions, disgusting utilitarian butchery of the holy and ancient russian language, the bolsheviks spitting on the graves of a conquered people, an enslaved people.. and now of course it;s showing up in english. i reject all neologisms, anyone tells me how i should use language like stanford 'inclusive language' manual, pronouns, AP manual of style talking about 'people who are' (homeless, french, illegal immigrants ( in the country illegally) ) as opposed to -- french people, homeless people ---- so none of us have intrinsic characteristics ? yes, we're all interchangeable.. people are in the country illegally. just regular people, because we're all the same people -- it could just as well be you or me but it's them .. so we're the same, who are we to judge or characterize at all ?? you know, things like this tend to make the world much more difficult to understand -- stripping away all distinctions and paradigms of understanding -- through which you can navigate the world maybe not perfectly but more effectively. now in this imaginary world where people are 'liberated' of their instincts there is no distinction, no stereotype -- you're walking at night, and you should cross the street as much to avoid a grandmother, as you would to avoid a young man -- maybe even an ethnic minority young man ? -- .. as i say anyone who tells me how to use my language i tell him to talk to the ass (zhopa ) , anyone who shoves a neologism in my throat or cringe diction he'll get something in his throat in return, but you see in english the most relevant meaning doesn;t map directly to the russian words which were used to construct the term Technicalrestrictions01 (talk) 14:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

• Keep. Wikipedia further states: "Military prisons are used variously to house prisoners of war, unlawful combatants, those whose freedom is deemed a national security risk by the military or national authorities, and members of the military found guilty of a serious crime". If this was purely SOP then we would expect any prison in a country that is a military dictatorship to be a "military prison" since the military runs everything, but obviously they are not. bd2412 T 19:08, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

RFD-kept. PUC – 23:47, 3 July 2023 (UTC)