Talk:with difficulty

RFD discussion: June–August 2024

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with difficulty

Transparent collocation only justifiable as a translation hub. ―⁠Biolongvistul (talk) 15:28, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure we presently have exactly the sense to fit this at with. This may need adding in any case. I am unsure about with difficulty and with ease (if we have one then we should have the other) but leaning keep unless general reusability of this pattern is demonstrated. Are there many/any collocations with "with" that work in exactly the same way? We say "I had difficulty doing it" and equally "I had trouble doing it", yet "I did it with trouble" somewhat surprisingly gets ZERO relevant Google hits that I can see. Mihia (talk) 17:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

... though, actually, we do of course say "I did it with NO trouble", so .... dunno. Mihia (talk) 18:09, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. One can also say, with considerable difficulty,^[1][2][3] with no difficulty at all,^[4][5][6] and so on. And then, one can also use without difficulty. I see no difference in the sense of with as used in, e.g., the offer was accepted with reluctance, I can state with confidence that the quality is not affected and it is with profound sadness that we announce the passing of our father.  --Lambiam 21:54, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not convinced by the "with considerable difficulty" example, or others similar, since it is not unusual for embellishments to be possible to idiomatic phrases that we would presumably wish to keep, e.g. with (very) good grace, with (wide) open arms, with a (sudden) bump etc.. The difference with "with confidence/reluctance/joy/enthusiasm/etc.", as I see it, is that these are internally generated feelings or emotions, that is you can "feel" reluctance/confidence/joy etc., whereas you cannot "feel" difficulty in the same way. For an exact parallel I would be looking more for something like "with trouble/problems/bother/obstacle(s)/obstruction(s)/impediment(s)/setbacks/etc.". Mihia (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

• Delete as SoP. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Is its being a translation hub not a valid reason to keep it? Nicodene (talk) 00:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. Deleting this looks like another example of rules for rules' sake, to be honest. This will only mislead people looking to translate between languages. Have you not met English language learners using hardly in the belief that it's the opposite of easily? Or English natives writing things like con mucha dificultidad that even i could see was wrong? THUB is for things like "hind leg of a horse", not set phrases like this. —Soap— 09:40, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

  Put another way, as i usually do, what possible benefit will deleting this entry bring to anybody? —Soap— 10:24, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm on the fence, leaning keep. On the one hand it does sound very SOP; on the other it looks like a good translation hub, and I don't see what other entry could replace it (difficultly doesn't do, and the translations there should be removed). PUC – 17:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Keep, about as obvious a WT:THUB as they come. It's telling that words like Latin difficiliter and Finnish vaivoin are actually defined as "with difficulty", suggesting this is the most natural way to express the concept in English. This, that and the other (talk) 01:17, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Keep as translation hub. Voltaigne (talk) 07:07, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per WT:THUB as there is no common single-word term for the adverbial sense of difficult in English (cf. Anglistics example). -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

  We've got difficultly, but it's definitely a word I'd only use for effect. Theknightwho (talk) 19:48, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

If this is kept per WT:THUB, then the definition must be amended to mention that. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 22:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Keep both as a translation hub and a synonym of the archaic difficultly. Inqilābī 19:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

keep as a translation hub — BABR・talk 18:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• RFD-kept and converted to translation hub. Ultimateria (talk) 16:33, 2 August 2024 (UTC)