Template talk:ko-conj-adj
Stems whose final ㅂ changes to 오[edit]
Let's be certain to include in the test forms an adjective whose stem ends in a ㅂ that changes to 오, e.g. 가깝다 (gakkapda, “gakkapda”), where important forms to verify include the formal plain future/assertive indicative (가깝겠다), formal plain present interrogative (가까으냐), and the formal plain past (가까왔다). Rod (A. Smith) 23:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
- You raise an important point, but just for the record the connective/haeche form of 가깝다 is actually 가까워. ;-) I've added 곱다 to the house of pain above; it does show the 오 mutation... Because this change is reflected in stem2, which is used for all forms dependent on the second principal part, there shouldn't be any specific weirdness involved... but yes, let's keep an eye on it.
- I'm still somewhat out to sea on the proper rules for the formal plain present interrogative for adjectives; it's not a form I encounter very often. Judging from Google, Koreans are as confused as I am; the number of people forming it as stem1+냐 (가깝냐) seems roughly equal to the number forming it as stem3+냐 (가까우냐). But stem3 seems right. -- Visviva 04:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- Lee & Lee support this with examples like 작으냐 (작다) and 기냐 (길다), although they formulate the rule in such a way that the reader is left assuming that the correct form would be *가깝으냐! But at least from their examples it seems clear that 가깝냐 cannot be correct, so it must be 가까우냐. -- Visviva 12:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, you're right about 가까우냐 instead of *가까으냐. My "201 Korean verbs" book and http://user.chollian.net/~lyh220/urimal/verbs.htm both corroborate that. Strangely, those two sources disagree regarding 가까워... vs. 가까와.... They are both commonly used (193,000 Google hits for 가까웠다 vs. 204,000 Google hits for 가까왔다).
- I tried adding 굽다 (gupda, “gupda”) to the house of pain because it follows the 눕다 (nupda, “nupda”) model, which is significantly different from that of 곱다 (gopda, “gopda”). Following is my attempt:
| Sentence-final forms | |||||
| Formal non polite (해라체) |
Informal non polite (해체) |
Informal polite (해요체) |
Formal polite (하십시오체) | ||
|
굽다 (gupda)
past: 구웠다 (guwotda) |
구워 (guwo)
past: 구웠어 (guwosseo) |
구워요 (guwoyo)
past: 구웠어요 (guwosseoyo) |
굽니다 (gupmnida)
past: 구웠습니다 (guwotseumnida) | |
|
구냐 (gunya)
past: 구웠냐 (guwonnya) |
구워 (guwo)
past: 구웠어 (guwosseo) |
구워요 (guwoyo)
past: 구웠어요 (guwosseoyo) |
굽니까 (gupmnikka)
past: 구웠습니까 (guwotseumnikka) | |
|
굽겠다 (gupgetda) | 굽겠어 (gupgesseo) | 굽겠어요 (gupgesseoyo) | 굽겠습니다 (gupgesseumnida) | |
| Connective forms | |||||
|
구워 (guwo) | 구워서 (guwoseo) | 구니 (guni) | 구니까 (gunikka) | |
|
굽지만 (gupjiman) | 군데 (gunde) | 굽더니 (gupdeoni) |
굽고 (gupgo) | |
|
구면 (gumyeon) | 구워야 (guwoya) | |||
| Noun and determiner forms | |||||
| Verbal nouns | 굼 (gum) | 굽기 (gupgi) | |||
| Past-tense verbal nouns | 구웠음 (guwosseum) | 구웠기 (guwotgi) | |||
| Determiners | present 군 (gun) | future 굴 (gul) | |||
| Sentence-final forms with honorific | ||||
| Plain (해라체) | Informal (해체) | Polite (해요체) | Formal (하십시오체) | |
|
구시다 (gusida)
past: 구셨다 (gusyeotda) |
구셔 (gusyeo)
past: 구셨어 (gusyeosseo) |
구세요 (guseyo) or 구셔요 (gusyeoyo)
past: 구셨어요 (gusyeosseoyo) |
구십니다 (gusimnida)
past: 구셨습니다 (gusyeotseumnida) |
|
구시냐 (gusinya)
past: 구셨냐 (gusyeonnya) |
구셔 (gusyeo)
past: 구셨어 (gusyeosseo) |
구세요 (guseyo) or 구셔요 (gusyeoyo)
past: 구셨어요 (gusyeosseoyo) |
구십니까 (gusimnikka)
past: 구셨습니까 (gusyeotseumnikka) |
|
구시겠다 (gusigetda) | 구시겠어 (gusigesseo) | 구시겠어요 (gusigesseoyo) | 구시겠습니다 (gusigetseumnida) |
| Connective forms with honorific | ||||
|
구셔 (gusyeo) | 구셔서 (gusyeoseo) | 구시니 (gusini) | 구시니까 (gusinikka) |
|
구시지만 (gusijiman) | 구신데 (gusinde) | 구시더니 (gusideoni) |
구시고 (gusigo) |
|
구시면 (gusimyeon) | 구셔야 (gusyeoya) | ||
| Noun and determiner forms with honorific | ||||
| Verbal nouns | 구심 (gusim) | 구시기 (gusigi) | ||
| Past-tense verbal nouns | 구셨음 (gusyeosseum) | 구셨기 (gusyeotgi) | ||
| Determiners | present 구신 (gusin) | future 구실 (gusil) | ||
- Unfortunately, I cannot make it display correctly. For example, it should show 굽는다, 굽느냐, etc. Is there another parameter I should use for such words? Rod (A. Smith) 17:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- For 굽다 as an adjective, my dictionaries disagree on 굽은 vs. 굽는; but since the latter would be insanely irregular, I'll assume it is 굽은 (Google seems to agree):
| Sentence-final forms | |||||
| Formal non polite (해라체) |
Informal non polite (해체) |
Informal polite (해요체) |
Formal polite (하십시오체) | ||
|
굽다 (gupda)
past: 굽었다 (gubeotda) |
굽어 (gubeo)
past: 굽었어 (gubeosseo) |
굽어요 (gubeoyo)
past: 굽었어요 (gubeosseoyo) |
굽니다 (gupmnida)
past: 굽었습니다 (gubeotseumnida) | |
|
굽으냐 (gubeunya)
past: 굽었냐 (gubeonnya) |
굽어 (gubeo)
past: 굽었어 (gubeosseo) |
굽어요 (gubeoyo)
past: 굽었어요 (gubeosseoyo) |
굽니까 (gupmnikka)
past: 굽었습니까 (gubeotseumnikka) | |
|
굽겠다 (gupgetda) | 굽겠어 (gupgesseo) | 굽겠어요 (gupgesseoyo) | 굽겠습니다 (gupgesseumnida) | |
| Connective forms | |||||
|
굽어 (gubeo) | 굽어서 (gubeoseo) | 굽으니 (gubeuni) | 굽으니까 (gubeunikka) | |
|
굽지만 (gupjiman) | 굽은데 (gubeunde) | 굽더니 (gupdeoni) |
굽고 (gupgo) | |
|
굽으면 (gubeumyeon) | 굽어야 (gubeoya) | |||
| Noun and determiner forms | |||||
| Verbal nouns | 굽음 (gubeum) | 굽기 (gupgi) | |||
| Past-tense verbal nouns | 굽었음 (gubeosseum) | 굽었기 (gubeotgi) | |||
| Determiners | present 굽은 (gubeun) | future 굽을 (gubeul) | |||
| Sentence-final forms with honorific | ||||
| Plain (해라체) | Informal (해체) | Polite (해요체) | Formal (하십시오체) | |
|
굽으시다 (gubeusida)
past: 굽으셨다 (gubeusyeotda) |
굽으셔 (gubeusyeo)
past: 굽으셨어 (gubeusyeosseo) |
굽으세요 (gubeuseyo) or 굽으셔요 (gubeusyeoyo)
past: 굽으셨어요 (gubeusyeosseoyo) |
굽으십니다 (gubeusimnida)
past: 굽으셨습니다 (gubeusyeotseumnida) |
|
굽으시냐 (gubeusinya)
past: 굽으셨냐 (gubeusyeonnya) |
굽으셔 (gubeusyeo)
past: 굽으셨어 (gubeusyeosseo) |
굽으세요 (gubeuseyo) or 굽으셔요 (gubeusyeoyo)
past: 굽으셨어요 (gubeusyeosseoyo) |
굽으십니까 (gubeusimnikka)
past: 굽으셨습니까 (gubeusyeotseumnikka) |
|
굽으시겠다 (gubeusigetda) | 굽으시겠어 (gubeusigesseo) | 굽으시겠어요 (gubeusigesseoyo) | 굽으시겠습니다 (gubeusigetseumnida) |
| Connective forms with honorific | ||||
|
굽으셔 (gubeusyeo) | 굽으셔서 (gubeusyeoseo) | 굽으시니 (gubeusini) | 굽으시니까 (gubeusinikka) |
|
굽으시지만 (gubeusijiman) | 굽으신데 (gubeusinde) | 굽으시더니 (gubeusideoni) |
굽으시고 (gubeusigo) |
|
굽으시면 (gubeusimyeon) | 굽으셔야 (gubeusyeoya) | ||
| Noun and determiner forms with honorific | ||||
| Verbal nouns | 굽으심 (gubeusim) | 굽으시기 (gubeusigi) | ||
| Past-tense verbal nouns | 굽으셨음 (gubeusyeosseum) | 굽으셨기 (gubeusyeotgi) | ||
| Determiners | present 굽으신 (gubeusin) | future 굽으실 (gubeusil) | ||
- My source for 가까워 was Naver's mirror of the Pyojun, here: [1]. Perhaps there is more going on than meets the eye, though. Interestingly, the Pyojun's entry for 굽다 as "bent/to bend" ([2]) is ambiguous, as it does not provide separate information for the verb and adjective senses. -- Visviva 00:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- w:Korean language North-South differences#ㅂ-irregular inflections attributes the difference in 가깝다 conjugation to regional variation (with North Korea following historical vowel harmony as 가까+와). We should probably separate North and South Korean conjugation tables when the inflections differ by region. Rod (A. Smith) 02:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oho! Very cool, thanks for catching that. This difference can be captured by the template as written (changing stem2, stem2_r, and haet) but there may be other differences that are not so easy to take care of. I trust we will cap this at North/South differences though, and leave Hamgyong, Jeju, Gyeongsang, et al. out of the picture for now? -- Visviva 08:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Interestingly, a site search of KCNA suggests that 가까운 (rather than *가까온) is still correct for the North. Odd. -- Visviva 13:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Transliteration and transcription[edit]
I think {{ko-conj-adj}} (and probably {{ko-conj-verb}}) has some transcription errors, e.g. with 좋다 above, it transcribes 좋다 as *joda instead of jota, 좋지만 as *jojiman instead of jochiman, 좋겠다 as *jogetda instead of joketda, 좋더니 as *jodeoni instead of joteoni, 좋고 as *jogo instead of joko. As we've discussed, the solution depends on whether we choose to transcribe or transliterate. Rod (A. Smith) 22:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Woops! Thanks for noticing. I could have sworn I fixed that -- in fact it was noticing that joko was specifically mentioned in the RR specification that made me do my last round of fixes -- but obviously I failed to do so. Should be OK now (per standard RR), unless I missed one. -- Visviva 04:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Conj?[edit]
Do adjectives have conjugations in Korean, or do they have declensions like they do in other languages? Mglovesfun (talk) 12:23, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
- Just another example of Latin-based grammatical terminology trying (and failing) to describe the world's languages. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:06, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
New template[edit]
I have created {{ko-conj-adj/auto}}, which is essentially based on this template but generates all forms automatically (i.e. no |stem1= ..., |stem2= ..., |stem1_r= ...). Only the |irreg=... (if p-, h- or s-irregular) parameter is needed. It can also detect whether conjugation in the North Korean standard differs from South Korean standard, and can generate two templates simultaneously. Wyang (talk) 23:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)