User talk:Alcenter

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Vahag (talk) 18:20, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Dialectal Terms

I could use the following label: cx. Cheers and solidarity. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 09:37, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean? Where can I put this code in a word entry? Thanks Alcenter (talk) 09:48, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

The language code is also essential, if needed. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 14:06, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

As for this entry, though... --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 14:18, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

It is actually not a single language but a group of quite different languages with different alphabets, grammar and literary norms. Unfortunately, they still have only one common language code "kca" Alcenter (talk) 14:22, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

So, there is no such a thing as non-dialectal variant of the Khanty language. All literature always has a name of a dialect in the title written in parenthesis (Kazym, Surgut etc.). That's a big problem for language codification, even here. That's why the category "Khanty dialectal terms" here [[1]] would be a little ambiguous. Then we must mark all existing Khanty words "Khanty dialectal terms". Thanks. Alcenter (talk) 15:05, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

The correct way of marking the dialect is this. --Vahag (talk) 16:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Kononova

I have made the template {{R:kca:Kononova}}. Please use it instead of typing the name of the dictionary every time. --Vahag (talk) 16:43, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Transliteration

What transliteration scheme do you use for Khanty? If you provide it, I can make an automatic transliteration module like Module:Armn-translit. --Vahag (talk) 16:45, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

At first I used only IPA-like transcription found here [[2]], [[3]], but it is quite inconsistent (they don't use vowel stress), and is not suitable for transliteration, only as a temporary IPA, I think. The best choice for transliteration is ISO 9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9. But I cannot find all Cyrillic Khanty letters. For example "ԓ" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_with_hook doesn't have Latin variant (though "ɬ" might be used). Here is also very outdated transliteration table for all Khanty dialects [[4]] I don't recommend using it. {{unsigned|Alcenter{{

OK, let's use ISO 9, with the addition of custom transliterations for missing letters. Can you check the Khanty table in Appendix:Cyrillic script and add the missing letters, if any, before I go on creating an automatic transliteration module. --Vahag (talk) 19:40, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I've found out recently that one month ago new official spelling rules for every Khanty dialect were chosen. You can read this article (in Russian) in which they explain the situation slightly. [[5]] The very big problem, that the authors invented "new" symbols that are not supported in Unicode. They don't know what Unicode means, and want to address to the developers of Microsoft Office (sic!) to add yet unsupported symbols to the Times New Roman font (sic!) that should be the official for new Khanty spelling. Total nonsense!

The only one book in a variant of the new spelling available in the Internet is "Диалектологический словарь хантыйского языка (шурышкарский и приуральский диалект)" 2011 [[6]]

As for Kazym dialect (having the most books available online in old spellings) there is one character denoting palatal [t'] that looks like these supported by Unicode: ѣ ҍ ԏ ҭ ꚋ. Here is the picture http://s12.postimg.org/u3tglwwx9/knanty.jpg

I don't know what to do with the new orthography, situation is not clear.

As for existing spelling, these are letters I've added:

Letters found in "Хантыйско-русский словарь (васюганский диалект)" 1996 (No ISBN) Vasyugan dialect

І - U+0406 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I

і - U+0456 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I

Ҭ - U+04AC CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER TE WITH DESCENDER

ҭ - U+04AD CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER TE WITH DESCENDER

(Typographically this letter looks like Т with a small hook but it is not supported by Unicode, Ҭ is the closest analogue (may be the same glyph mentioned before))

Ӄ - U+04C3 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER KA WITH HOOK

ӄ - U+04C4 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER KA WITH HOOK

Я̈ U+042F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YA + U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS

я̈ U+044F CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER YA + U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS

"Хантыйский язык в таблицах (казымский диалект)" 2004 →ISBN

Ҫ - U+04AA CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES WITH DESCENDER

ҫ - U+04AB CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ES WITH DESCENDER

(used here instead of usual "Щ")

And the letters from the new spelling - Љљ Њњ. Alcenter (talk) 15:51, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

OK, I have created WT:KCA TR and Module:kca-translit. Khanty is now transliterated automatically. For ӆ and ԓ, which are not in ISO 9, I chose LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH DOT BELOW and LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH CARON respectively, by analogy with and . ɬ is not "in the spirit" of ISO 9 and has no capital form. Feel free to edit Module:kca-translit if you prefer a different transliteration scheme. BTW, could you add a WT:BABEL to your userpage? --Vahag (talk) 20:21, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Livvi Language?

I wonder what language family the Livvi language is in? Nothing personal here when it comes to customer service. -_0 --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:50, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

It is one of the Uralic languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livvi-Karelian_language Alcenter (talk) 16:10, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see now; thank you for replying. :) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Question

Hi, I just wanted to ask why Mari is seperated as eastern and western? Can‘t we use a uniform Mari? Cheers!