Wiktionary talk:Random Competition 2018

Can you include the letter values with the letters like last time?

Would be lovely, thanks. --WikiTiki89 14:36, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I can. I actually thought they were done automatically. Anyway, there are bound to be a few more screwups in my Gamesmastering. It wouldn't be a WF comp without them...--Cien pies 6 (talk) 11:12, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Transliteration

I would like to file a complaint, @Wikitiki89. The rules say you can play romanisations according to the "general rules", which I take to be WT:RU TR. Even if other systems exist, I see no evidence that a system that would transliterate Russian like that is in wide use. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 07:38, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

It's a valid complaint. And 130 points are at stake. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 11:19, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Well first of all, the rules aren't completely clear about what "according to the general rules of the language" means. I took it to mean that it's meant to exclude garbage masquerading as a transliteration. The character č is not part of this game. For words whose actual orthography uses this character, we have a very clear rule that it becomes c. However, for transliterations we do not have a clear rule, and so there is no reason to tie the letter ч to a transliteration not representable in this game only to strip it of its diacritic, when instead you can directly choose a more faithful transliteration that is representable in this game. Second of all, transliterations such as otxvachu, actually are in use both in internet communication and in academic papers. Since отхвачу is not a super common word, this is better seen by searching for xochu, the transliteration of the very common word хочу, which can be seen both in internet communication (google web:"xochu") and in academic papers (google books:"xochu"). --WikiTiki89 13:09, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

We do have a clear rule (well, as clear as anything designed by WF is likely to be), because there is an example specifically in Russian. The romanisation produces bystréje, but é has a diacritic and must be simplified to ASCII, therefore bysteje is a playable word. That makes it clear that otvaxču would be simplified to otvaxcu in order to be playable. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 16:36, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Except that the word is actually быстрее (bystreje) with no diacritic. The diacritic is only added in dictionaries to show stress. --WikiTiki89 16:58, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I dispute that that changes the meaning of the guideline, but I suppose that it's up to the Gamesmaster @Cien pies 6 to issue a final decision. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 20:34, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

What I meant is that it invalidates your argument that "we do have a clear rule". But yes, I guess it's up to the gamemaster. --WikiTiki89 20:37, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I was gonna allow this, but wanted to see the arguments anyway. Entry remains --Cien pies 6 (talk) 13:26, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

месех

I challenge you, @Wikitiki89, to prove that месех can be transliterated as mesex, and not just meseh. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 11:03, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

google books:"bjax" Bulgarian returns plenty of results that transliterate Bulgarian х as x. I don't know if I'll be able to find any transliterations of месех, since it's not a very common word. --WikiTiki89 11:23, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not as convinced as with the previous word. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 12:59, 30 April 2018 (UTC)--Cien pies 6 (talk) 12:59, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

What more do you want? You won't find either meseh or mesex, because меся (mesja, “to knead”) is not a common enough word to ever be discussed in transliterated contexts, while бях is the same tense (and the same -ях/-ех suffix) but of the verb съм (sǎm, “to be”), and so is abundant in transliterations. In fact google books:"bjax" Bulgarian gets more hits than google books:"bjah" Bulgarian. --WikiTiki89 13:17, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Romanization of Bulgarian states Х can be transliterated as "h" or "kh". --Cien pies 6 (talk) 08:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Here on Wiktionary, we consider Google Books to be more authoritative than Wikipedia. --WikiTiki89 11:39, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

OK, so link to something that shows the letter is "h" when "transliterated according to the general rules of the language" --Cien pies 6 (talk) 11:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Transliteration isn't part of a language, so it isn't actually covered by the rules of the language. Therefore, my interpretation of "transliterated according to the general rules of the language" is that the transliteration must represent the word in a meaningful way when the word is parsed according to the rules of the language. However, I've been sticking to actually accepted transliterations and not making up my own. I've given you proof above that x for Bulgarian х is accepted and used in academia. --WikiTiki89 14:20, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

We'll see what happens at the end of the game. By then I may have learned Bulgarian and be able to actually have a vague idea about what the hell I'm talking about. Cien pies 6 (talk) 20:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

• It's been accepted after talking to SGB. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 09:38, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Points

@Cien pies 6: It's definitely 109 and 106, not 107 and 104. Here's the math:

FOGNANO: 34

EAF: 10

SNO: 3

GG: 6

LN: 2

EA: 2

SN: 2

34 + 10 + 3 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 50 = 109

And similarly for Metaknowledge's and yours, but 32 instead of 34, 4 instead of 6, and 3 instead of one of the 2's:

32 + 10 + 3 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 50 = 106

--WikiTiki89 14:13, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

@Cien pies 6, Metaknowledge: I'm going to change the points back until someone responds to this telling me where my math is wrong. --WikiTiki89 14:03, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Sweet, saves me some work...--Cien pies 6 (talk) 17:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

entries to be added

Hey all players. It should go without saying, but all the entries in this game are only accepted if there's an entry on en.wikt for them. I'mma include a time period in which any arguments can be made about validity of terms, and any deemed unacceptable (like fanogon-) will result in points not being awarded. So, time to deredlinkify...--Cien pies 6 (talk) 12:11, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

WF copying my answers

Three times in a row. Really? --WikiTiki89 14:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, if he were smart he'd copy mine. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 14:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

As Gamesmaster, I find no proof of cheating. WF's entries remain. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 11:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

On further inspection, I found that one answer was copied. However, as there's nothing in the rules against copying, WF is to remain unpenalised but will be given a warning about unsportsmanlike behaviour. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 09:40, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

šnwhl

From where I'm standing, this entry uses Roman script. šnōhr looks to me like the pronunciation. If so, it's invalid. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 09:32, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@Cien pies 6: It uses Roman because the Book Pahlavi script is not in Unicode, so I think it should be valid. šnōhr is indeed the transcription. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 21:14, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

mdua

@Harmonicaplayer, for the record, it's a red link again. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. Consider the points removed, with absolutely no change in the standings. --Harmonicaplayer (talk) 10:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC)