User talk:Kephir

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Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Overriding italics for a portion of a style008:02, 15 October 2014
xte bug111:42, 11 October 2014
Bug in translation fixing tool113:44, 5 October 2014
Template:pl-decl-noun-sing - automatic category116:58, 2 October 2014
Stop!418:49, 29 September 2014
Template:ttbc breaking212:00, 27 September 2014
Preferences links for anons010:56, 19 September 2014
Template:R:PWN410:47, 14 September 2014
jajko707:59, 14 September 2014
Compounds and Template:affix307:57, 14 September 2014
komórko206:51, 14 September 2014
Catching unescaped pipes413:25, 17 August 2014
Placing discussions to collapsible boxes122:04, 15 August 2014
Personal attack warning023:24, 13 August 2014
Template:catfix gadget improvements620:31, 7 August 2014
017:42, 7 August 2014
re:Vilamovian404:07, 5 August 2014
How to use the Scribunto debug console?206:07, 31 July 2014
call a spade a spade120:04, 28 July 2014
"this-and-that user acts purely on their whim and is evil"516:07, 27 July 2014
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Overriding italics for a portion of a style

Some taxonomic names that are mostly italicized have a portion that ideally should not be italicized, terms that occur between the italicized words, eg, subsp., var., morph, form, sect., subg., etc). I cannot figure out how to achieve this with the taxonomic templates ({{taxon}}, {{taxlink}}, and {{taxoninfl}}) as they are now. I tried pipes with both wikiformatting and the HTML "i" tag. I wonder whether the formatting built in to the template (style "biota"?) overrides any such formatting. Is there a simple way to change this? The scores of thousands of uses of these template mostly appear correctly except for this detail, which affects fewer than two thousand template uses, I think. It is most meaningful probably for the inflection-line template, with perhaps 100-200 template uses with those preferably un-italicized terms.

DCDuring TALK16:33, 14 October 2014

It seems to have trouble recognizing Jèrriais- cadaver for example.

DTLHS (talk)03:10, 10 October 2014


Keφr11:42, 11 October 2014

Bug in translation fixing tool

It seems that it's still using language templates, even though they've long been deprecated. See per annum for example.

CodeCat12:11, 27 April 2014

No, it does not. I think I typed {{subst:fi}} manually out of habit. Sigh. And it was me who created {{\}} as a replacement…

Keφr15:21, 27 April 2014

Template:pl-decl-noun-sing - automatic category

Can you modify pl-decl-noun-sing so that it automatically adds category:Polish singularia tantum? Given what Template:label does, this must be possible, but I don't know any Lua.

Same for pl-decl-noun-pl.

Tweenk (talk)00:35, 1 October 2014

After some hesitation, done.

Keφr16:58, 2 October 2014

Please stop subtracting valid requests. It makes you look paranoid and it annoys people.

Romanophile (talk)15:22, 29 September 2014

…I do not follow.

Keφr15:49, 29 September 2014

See this and evaluate this revision. But more importantly, reevaluate this revision, and ask yourself why Pass a Method would ‘joke’ like that. She or he is probably feeling depressed.

Romanophile (talk)15:55, 29 September 2014

The only items that can remotely be considered valid hits on that list are "Atheists do not worship the god Athe." or "Atheism is a highly secretive religion devoted to private worship of the ultimate, all powerful god Athe.". Which kind of speaks for itself: there is practically no such word. Unless you define it as "{{label|en|humorous}} hypothetical deity supposedly worshipped by atheists" with a trivial back-formation etymology. (Did I really just explain an obvious groaner to you?) Though if you really think it should be included, you could add the entry with this (or similar) definition yourself and not clutter the already-overloaded list of requests.

Maybe if you read Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2014/March#Recent edits to US location entries, you will understand why. Though then, if I have to explain puns to you, maybe you will not.

Keφr17:08, 29 September 2014

I’m not interested in fighting over the inclusion of a silly word. But concerning Pass a Method, holy FUCK, mate! The topic was SIX! BLOODY! MONTHS ago! How typical of you lot to obstinately hold onto your grudges. If you think that the name is ‘silly,’ it is of no consequence to the project. Please restore the request.

Romanophile (talk)18:49, 29 September 2014

I'm not sure why, but pages that use this template have started breaking. Not only are unwanted categories now appearing on the page (specifically, categories for languages that don't exist on Wiktionary), but all translation boxes after the one containing the template get broken. They're also triggering invisible module errors.

Could you have a look at this?

CodeCat23:15, 26 September 2014

Breaking template boxes has been fixed (it seems to be an unrelated regression in Scribunto, which hit Module:ugly hacks). Adding nonexistent categories for nonexistent languages is expected. The module errors… see for yourself.

Keφr06:45, 27 September 2014

Ok, I fixed that error too. Thank you.

CodeCat12:00, 27 September 2014

Preferences links for anons

What preferences do we let anons have? I thought the idea was for them not to have much because we want folks to register.

Please answer on my page as I hate LiquidThreads to the extent of simply not following any page with it activated. Is there a way that someone like me could watch the page of a LT user and respond the old-fashioned way without all the glitz? (I have had to erase my four tildes after every sentence I have written in this post.)

DCDuring TALK10:56, 19 September 2014


FYI, I have created Template:R:PWN and placed it to a couple of pages. Should you have an issue with the template, please let me know.

Dan Polansky (talk)10:27, 14 September 2014

I see you added quotation marks. I won't remove them, but note they are not used in some of the most popular reference templates. I think it was Robert Ullman who opined that the quotations marks are excessive typography given the color and icon we use in the external hyperlink.

Dan Polansky (talk)10:33, 14 September 2014

No real objection. In fact I sometimes consult PWN myself, just to make sure I did not miss any definition. Though we do not tend to treat dictionaries as very authoritative anyway. Also, I would have probably named the template {{R:pl:PWN}} myself.

Keφr10:37, 14 September 2014

I place these kinds of sources to "External links", to suggest we do not use them as an authority. As for "pl:" prefix in the template name, I think it does not add any value, and is longer to type.

Dan Polansky (talk)10:40, 14 September 2014

Okay. I am fine with that. Not sure why you even posted this.

(I imagine there might be other dictionaries abbreviated "PWN"; adding language code should disambiguate that sufficiently. And I never understood lazy typists. But meh.)

Keφr10:47, 14 September 2014

jajko: I think the IPA pronunciation does not match the recording here or another recording I found. I think the k sound is affecting the shift from a to j.

Gbleem (talk)19:28, 13 September 2014

I hear no such thing, and I speak no such thing. And "jajko" is definitely not pronounced as two words.

Keφr05:19, 14 September 2014

The articles I found say that a space separates syllables, not indicate that it should be pronounced as two words.

Gbleem (talk)06:58, 14 September 2014

Here is the article I found. "It's important to keep syllable structure in mind, since syllable divisions are based on the syllable structure of a language. We may even represent syllable divisions in IPA with a low dot or period between syllables: "hand over" /hæn.dow.vər/, "astronomical" /æs.trə.nɑ.mɪ.kəl/."

Gbleem (talk)07:07, 14 September 2014

Then why do you put spaces there?! Did you learn IPA yesterday? Because that surely does not entitle you to "correct" what other people wrote, especially regarding a language (as I infer) you do not speak at all.

And actually, syllable division is quite often so ill-specified that I start to doubt that having syllable breaks in the pronunciation is any useful. Module:pl-IPA adds them, but I have considered dropping it several times. Too much trouble for little gain.

Keφr07:41, 14 September 2014

You are right. The stress acts as the syllable break.

Gbleem (talk)07:51, 14 September 2014

I meant, you are right I should have used a period.

Gbleem (talk)07:59, 14 September 2014

I still think there should be both phonemic and phonetic pronunciations.

Gbleem (talk)07:54, 14 September 2014

I actually had the same idea you did, but didn't want to implement compounds just yet. The reason is that a compound is not necessarily any word composed of two or more whole words. There are, I think, several entries which use {{compound}} with terms beginning or ending with hyphens, but are probably still compounds.

Look at the transclusions for Template:tracking/compound/prefix, Template:tracking/compound/suffix and Template:tracking/compound/interfix for a full list.

CodeCat17:58, 6 September 2014

Okay, this condition may have some false negatives. Has it got any false positives?

Also, I think these tracking lists are not very useful at assessing the accuracy of this check. They contain doorzettingsvermogen (obviously a compound, and would be detected) and poniedziałek (false compound, and would not be marked as such), and probably more such examples.

And why not put this comment at Template talk:affix? Or BP?

Keφr18:26, 6 September 2014

To find any possible misdetections, you would have to copy the detection code to the {{compound}} function in the module, and track any entries for which the detection does not result in "yes this is a compound".

CodeCat18:42, 6 September 2014

Here it is: Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:tracking/compound/looks like confix, Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:tracking/compound/one whole word. It seems there are not so many of them, but I guess we have to wait until the job queue goes through it all to be sure.

Keφr07:57, 14 September 2014

I think my edit better matches the recording.

Gbleem (talk)19:30, 13 September 2014

No, you just misheard it. There really is a [u] there. [u] is the standard pronunciation of "ó". [o] does not exist except in dialects.

Keφr05:12, 14 September 2014

I found the solution. We put the phonemic pronunciation in slashes and the phonetic pronunciation in brackets.

Gbleem (talk)06:51, 14 September 2014

Catching unescaped pipes

I noticed you added a check for the second parameter of rfd/rfv archive templates to make sure no unescaped pipes slipped through. This, however, does not catch the presumably rare scenario where there is an equals sign following the unescaped pipe, since that would be passed as a named parameter. I just had the idea of a module that could be invoked like this: {{#invoke:argtools|check_for_extra_args|these|are|the|allowed|args|cat=Archive templates needing attention}}. This would just be inserted at the end of a template and it would check for any arguments not listed and add a category if any are found.

WikiTiki8914:28, 16 August 2014

Yes, {{rfv-failed|<span class=foo>quux</span>xyz|bar}} would also fail to be caught (it should be noticeable visually, though). I fear some performance problems with that solution, though. Maybe add it to ugly hacks for now.

Keφr17:37, 16 August 2014

I added a check_for_extra_args function to Module:ugly hacks (I haven't tested it yet). I don't see why the performance would be bad at all (the slowest part would probably just be loading the module), especially since these archive templates tend not to be transcluded too many times on one page.

WikiTiki8918:28, 16 August 2014

In this instance probably not. However, I think it would not be necessarily desirable to use it very widely either. I think it defeats lazy template argument expansion, for one.

Maybe one could ask at bugzilla: for some "unused arguments tracking" functionality for use in modules.

Keφr19:51, 16 August 2014

Well the only purpose I really intended it for was the archive templates, so I agree it shouldn't be used anywhere else.

WikiTiki8913:25, 17 August 2014

Placing discussions to collapsible boxes

I object to placing discussions to collapsible boxes. I object to admins acting as editors of discussions. This is not a common, long-standing practice in the English Wiktionary; I have been here since the end of 2006.

You asked why I did not revert before. I did, multiple times. But I do not have all the time in the universe to revert war.

I do not hope that this post will lead to a change of your behavior. It is here for the record. I think that both -sche and you are of cultural backgrounds that are not comfortable with an open discussion and an open but honest and civil criticism of people.

Dan Polansky (talk)09:57, 14 August 2014

See points 5 and 8 of WT:NOT: "Wiktionary is not a soapbox, chatroom or discussion forum", "there are discussion rooms to discuss Wiktionary-related topics" but "Wiktionary is not a battlefield. Every user is expected to interact with others civilly", etc. The subthreads I collapsed had veered far from Wiktionary-related territory into harassment / soapboxing about topics irrelevant and indeed harmful to the project. As for Purplebackpack's collapsing of his own thread, I agree with his assessment that it wasn't going anywhere, and I agree with the assessment of others that it was just [contributing to the continuation of] drama. Should it or shouldn't it have been collapsed? Meh.

- -sche (discuss)22:04, 15 August 2014

Personal attack warning

Please do not call another editor a "lying illiterate troll"

Purplebackpack8923:24, 13 August 2014

Template:catfix gadget improvements

I've been trying to find which JavaScript controls this, but I couldn't find it so maybe you can help.

Currently, the gadget doesn't work right for many pages. It should only apply its changes to pages that are either in the main namespace or, if in the Appendix namespace, have a name beginning with the language name plus /. Furthermore, it doesn't work at all with non-Latin scripts, because the text that has detection applied to it is simply &nbsp;, which of course only contains Latin characters. I'm not sure if there is a way around this. Ideally, the script would be detected for each individual entry in the category, but I don't know how feasible that is.

CodeCat17:44, 7 August 2014

It sits in MediaWiki:Gadget-legacy.js. Look for "CATFIX". It should be probably re-written and migrated to MediaWiki:Common.js. (You could have found that yourself, you know. Either scroll to the bottom of MediaWiki:Common.js or Special:Search for "CATFIX" in MediaWiki and User namespaces. The first is the more reliable.)

As for the first question, use mw.Title. A link to its documentation I have put in {{editnotice-JavaScript}} — it is lumped with the rest of ResourceLoader docs. As for the second, I think a JavaScript framework of sorts should be created for accessing languages and scripts data. I have some ideas about how to create one, but I am not going to put them into reality any time soon. Use the default script in the meantime, I guess. But when it is done, the JS could download character ranges directly from Module:scripts/data (caching them in localStorage), and then use them to perform script detection in JS. (Or we could just have WebFonts handle it…)

Keφr18:21, 7 August 2014

I made the change but it seems like it only works sometimes. Other times I get the error "mw.Title is not a constructor".

CodeCat19:02, 7 August 2014

You need to declare a dependency: use mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.Title'], function () { /* ... */ }). Use it as late as possible, but not later.

Also, too much Python? In catch(e), the e is a variable holding the error. For checking the class, you use e instanceof SyntaxError or similar. Though it tends not to be very useful. (mw.Title can throw when given invalid titles, so you better check for errors, if only to swallow them.)

Also, use A.substr(0, B.length) === B instead of A.indexOf(B) === 0. The latter is quite wasteful. (ECMAScript 6 has A.startsWith(B), but it is not supported everywhere yet, so better not to rely on it.) Similarly, this.textContent || this.innerText is superior to $(this).text().

Now excuse me, I need to get back to being retired.

Keφr19:29, 7 August 2014

I made the changes you suggested, but I'm not sure I understand how declaring dependencies works. Am I supposed to wrap the whole jQuery(document).ready(function($){ ... } in yet another function? Like this?

mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.Title'], function () {

I guess I just don't know enough about JS stuff to understand what I am doing. I understand the language, but not the framework.

CodeCat19:41, 7 August 2014

Exactly. Though I would do it like:

if (mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') === 14) // or mw.config.get('wgNamespaceIds').category for extra readability
jQuery(document).ready(function () {
	var wrapper;
	if (!(wrapper = document.getElementById("catfix")))
	mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.Title'], function () {
		// ...
Keφr20:17, 7 August 2014

For some reason, the link from to U+FFFD has Unsupported titled/Replacement character as its target instead of Unsupported titles/Replacement character. I'm not sure how to fix this, but since you were the one who added the {{character info/new}} template, I thought you might be able to fix it.

Mr. Granger (talkcontribs)17:42, 7 August 2014


Where was this discussion you speak of? ->

"Członkowie Akademyj – Accademia Wilamowicziana zalecają stosowanie (w publikacjach pisanych w języku angielskim) następujących słów: rzeczownika Wymysorys (‘etnolekt wilamowski’) i przymiotnika Wilamowicean w odniesieniu do języka i kultury Wilamowic".

(Members of the Akademyj-Accademia Wilamowicziana recommend the use of (in publications written in English) of the following words: noun Wymysorys ('etnolekt categories ') and the adjective Wilamowicean in regards to the language and culture of Wilamowice.)

SPL908455, Henryk (talk)14:21, 27 July 2014

Discussion on Wiktionary.

Keφr14:48, 27 July 2014

No cóż, muszę przyznać, wygłupiłem się.

SPL908455, Henryk (talk)20:18, 27 July 2014

Przez grzeczność nie zaprzeczę, ale wróćmy do meritum. To nie jest tak, że nic nie wolno, tylko trzeba robić rzeczy po kolei. Proszę mi sprawę wyłożyć od początku do końca, żeby było wiadomo, co ludziom powiedzieć. Jak widzę raz już była ta kwestia podniesiona (nawet jeśli czysto hipotetycznie) i nie było jakichś wielkich protestów, więc może przeszłoby to bez problemu. Tylko się nie spodziewaj, że to pójdzie szybko, zwłaszcza latem.

Keφr11:37, 28 July 2014

To my surprise, it does not seem like either "Vilamovian" or "Wymysorys" is very common; in fact, it doesn't seem like either one would even meet CFI. "Wilamowicean" seems to be the most common name in Google Books and Google Scholar, and "Vilamovicean" also gets several Google Scholar hits.

- -sche (discuss)04:07, 5 August 2014

How to use the Scribunto debug console?

Sorry to ask a question that may be obvious. The Scribunto docs mention a debug console useful for debugging scripts and which handles the output of print statements, but there's no documentation on how to access this console.

Benwing (talk)02:32, 31 July 2014

When editing a module, scroll to the bottom.

Keφr04:15, 31 July 2014

Thanks, hiding in plain sight :-)

BTW it appears that functions you've declared outside of the export can't be called from the debug console, regardless of whether they're declared local? That's too bad.

Benwing (talk)06:07, 31 July 2014

What's wrong with the Finnish translation here?

DTLHS (talk)19:54, 28 July 2014

Space at the end of the line. I should have seen that coming…

Keφr20:04, 28 July 2014

"this-and-that user acts purely on their whim and is evil"

First off, your hatting of my comments was highly inappropriate. I have undone it.

Second off, there are three problems I have with the admins on this project

  1. They remove a lot of content, some of which I wouldn't remove
  2. They don't explain their reverts of other editors (Case in point: Oso. It took me three comments to get Ungoliant to say "It's a common noun", and six or seven more to get somebody to say why it's a common noun. Ungoliant should've said that it's a common noun and why either in his edit summary, or in response to the first comment on his page)
  3. They let personal feelings get in the way of editing (Case in point: Mglovesfun and his sarcastic comments)
Purplebackpack8920:16, 25 July 2014

Your vote "rationale" was "highly inappropriate". What did you expect when you started it with a childish and self-defeating ad hominem?

As for the rest,

  1. Then explain why. You have never done that.
  2. Being an autopatrolled user, you are supposed to already know what a common noun is. This is one of the most basic basics. You could have looked up the difference when two editors told you "Oso" is a common noun. Instead you ran around shouting "USER WITH AN AGENDA!". Pathetic.
  3. Hello, pot. My name is kettle. How is it going?

Also, stop randomly jumping accounts for no reason, it makes it harder to review your "contributions", for lack of a better word. If you do not, I will probably block one of them. Abusive users should not have the privilege to use multiple accounts.

Though if it depended on me alone, both would be long indeffed with no talk page access. I am quite convinced that literally nobody here would miss you if I made that happen now. Get unbanned on w:simple: and I may change my mind about you. Protip: saying "the ban is so unfair" or "come on, it has been a year already" is not going to cut it. Or are they too a part of a vast cabal against you?

Keφr21:12, 25 July 2014

There IS a reason why I use green account sometimes and yellow account others. I use yellow account from my home desktop and laptop, and green account from elsewhere. This violates no policy here (or on Wikipedia), but if you want to whine about it on Beer Parlour, go ahead and waste the both of ours' times.

I have explained why I believe that content shouldn't be removed, many times. Usually it boils down to "leaving this does no harm" or "this should be fixed rather than deleted". You have ignored my comments.

As for you threatening to indef me, your attempt to do that was embarrassing (most of the diffs you provided violated no policy), and was closed as disruptive. I would advise you not to go down that road again so soon.

Purplebackpack8921:51, 25 July 2014

Some people here do not hold easily gameable policies in much regard. If you cannot act reasonably without a written policy explicitly telling you to do that, you are not going to have an easy time here.

Unnecessary maintenance burden is a harm. Not a big harm, it has to be weighted against other harms, but it is a harm nevertheless. We keep that in mind without necessarily repeating it every time.

So I guess you want to keep turning every debate into a combat, shouting "keep because this user is evil" until it becomes so embarrassing to yourself that we have no choice but to expel you. So be it. Thought that kind of flies in the face of regarding time as a precious resource, right?

End of topic.

Keφr16:21, 26 July 2014

Not end of topic, buddy. If you think that I respond "keep because this user is evil", you clearly haven't looked at my contributions. In greater than 90% of the votes I make, I make no mention of the nominator. And keep in mind that I don't vote in RfDs as often as you or many other people on this project.

But you also have to consider why I think that. I have been baited and hounded by you and other editors for quite some time now. You are looking for any excuse (however tenuous) to have me indeffed. You claim I'm as bad at personalizing things as you are. But that's not true for two reasons: a) I don't comb through every single contribution you've made; and b) you are trying to get me run off this project, and I'm not trying to get you run off this project.

It's pretty clear that it is unproductive for you to interact with me. I would strongly suggest you voluntarily stop interacting with interacting with me on any level. If you don't, I WILL have to request an interaction ban.

Purplebackpack8916:47, 26 July 2014

We do not practice "interaction bans" here. And if you manage to infuriate people without even intending to do so, all the more reason to get rid of you.

Keφr16:07, 27 July 2014
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