User talk:Kephir

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Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Gadget "LegacyScripts"110:26, 16 April 2014
Transcluding templates in modules017:10, 15 April 2014
wikimedia-rev115:13, 15 April 2014
Template:bottom319:32, 12 April 2014
So where would I put my link, if anywhere?019:25, 11 April 2014
Restored label templates114:19, 8 April 2014
About AWA104:30, 6 April 2014
Archiving time114:29, 4 April 2014
Label redirects119:41, 30 March 2014
Module:inh-translit208:43, 30 March 2014
Deprecate aliases019:43, 29 March 2014
Module:labels/data119:17, 29 March 2014
Module:labels119:32, 28 March 2014
Awa improvement 2408:26, 23 March 2014
Template:en-proper noun021:40, 22 March 2014
About the word "背信"113:27, 22 March 2014
logika418:43, 20 March 2014
022:14, 18 March 2014
Script error in Template:pl-decl-adj-i316:23, 16 March 2014
Awa improvement216:12, 16 March 2014
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Gadget "LegacyScripts"

Hi Kephir,

What is the purpose of the "LegacyScripts" gadget (definition). The listed script page (MediaWiki:Gadget-legacy.js) does not exist.

Also, I think you added [wgNamespaceNumber & ~1] by accident (edit), right?

Krinkle (talk)04:53, 16 April 2014

I planned to move most customisation scripts from MediaWiki:Common.js into there, and then start converting them into proper gadgets. Then I thought that maybe I should not rush so much, maybe I should start a discussion on WT:GP/WT:BP first, and in the end I never got around to do anything.

And yes, it was an accident.

Keφr10:26, 16 April 2014

Transcluding templates in modules

Unlike for regular wikitext, you can't transclude a template that doesn't exist. It triggers an error if you do. So if you want to add a template for tracking, it has to be created. Creating it is good anyway because then we can document which module is using the template, and we won't forget to remove it later.

CodeCat17:10, 15 April 2014


Thank you for creating this, but it ended up triggering more errors than we had before...

CodeCat13:02, 15 April 2014

Ugh. Fixed. It was not the problem with the template itself, though. The problem is that {{#if:{{{lang|}}}|{{{lang}}}|en}} and {{{lang|en}}} are not equivalent, and I changed the former to the latter in some templates.

Keφr15:13, 15 April 2014

I looked into the effects of your edit in diff. Turns out that extra closing </div> wasn't entirely spurious after all. Have a look at 怨霊, for instance, and then taking that closing tag out again and have another look at the entry, and you'll see that everything after the call to {{bottom}} gets sucked into a center-aligned collapsible table, while the content that's supposed to be in the table vanishes. But with the "extra" </div>, that doesn't happen.

Granted, that's pairing {{bottom}} with {{der-top}}. But for a while at least, {{bottom}} was the generic closing template for various bits and bobs, not just {{top2}} and its ilk, which apparently only have one opening <div> tag. I don't think that having an extra closing </div> tag hurts anything, as messy and inelegant as it is. If you have any bot experience, it would be great if you could identify all mismatched uses of {{bottom}} and replace them appropriately, and then cut out the extra </div> tag. (I don't have any bot experience or I'd set to that myself.)


‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig05:58, 12 April 2014

Sometimes it does hurt… look at Talk:eumhun, where the archive box ends prematurely because of that extra tag.

I guess I could find all the mismatched {{bottom}}s, but it will not be quick or easy.

Keφr06:59, 12 April 2014

Aha. Thanks for that, hadn't seen such cases. Well then, I guess there's nothing for it but to try to find all the mismatches. I'll do what I can for now. Actually, let me also ping @CodeCat: -- would MewBot (talkcontribs) be a good bot for finding mismatched uses of {{bottom}}?

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig19:06, 12 April 2014

Actually, I just saw my watchlist and realized that someone called Buttermilch (talkcontribs) has already done this. Then I found that Buttermilch is Kephir (talkcontribs). Thanks, Keφr!

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig19:32, 12 April 2014

So where would I put my link, if anywhere?

Sorry. The "Search terms:" threw me off. I'm not used to this format.

Civic Cat (talk)19:25, 11 April 2014

Restored label templates

User:msh210 has been restoring all of the templates you deleted, even though they are deprecated and are not used for anything... :/

CodeCat03:09, 8 April 2014

Really? His contributions list (even deleted ones) says otherwise. Ah, here it is.

Keφr14:13, 8 April 2014

Maybe automatically change all the pipes to {{!}} in the text?

kc_kennylau (talk)00:24, 6 April 2014

Done already. Though I would prefer splitting the archiving templates into "top" and "bottom" parts. Would be much less messy. I am not sure how to best approach it, though.

Keφr04:30, 6 April 2014

Archiving time

"Keep closed discussions unarchived for at least 7 days." Where did you get that from? I want to quote it to people who archive too early.

WikiTiki8914:04, 4 April 2014

Толя or Kenny? (I added that text after seeing the latter.) I got it from the zeroth section (before the TOC) of WT:RFV, though I think it a good idea to apply everywhere:

Archiving a request: At least a week after a request has been closed, if no one has objected to its disposition, the request may be archived to the entry's talk-page or to WT:RFVA.

Keφr14:29, 4 April 2014

Label redirects

I noticed you deleted {{geography}}, but not {{Geography}} which points to it. Just letting you know, you may have missed a few more.

CodeCat19:28, 30 March 2014

I see… They should show up at Special:BrokenRedirects eventually.

Keφr19:41, 30 March 2014

This module has stopped working. Do you know why? See in абаз (abaz).

Vahag (talk)08:37, 30 March 2014

Returned wrong variable. Fixed.

Keφr08:40, 30 March 2014


Vahag (talk)08:43, 30 March 2014

Deprecate aliases

Re [1]: I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but maybe set up "vector" as an independent label rather than an alias, have it display "linear algebra" just like it used to, but have it sort entries into a cleanup category?

- -sche (discuss)19:43, 29 March 2014

Something you did has broken all labels. Please fix or revert.

WikiTiki8919:07, 28 March 2014

Ouch. Mistyped a variable name. Already reverted, though.

Keφr19:32, 28 March 2014

Awa improvement 2

I find the section headings like "RFD discussion: February–March 2014" too long. Would it be possible to have "RFD discussion 1", "RFD discussion 2", etc.? That would require that the script inspects the existing headings on the talk page. Alternatively, I would prefer "RFD discussion 2014" or even "RFD discussion", since section headings can get repeated on a talk page, after all. What do you think? Do you have a strong preference for the long section heading?

Dan Polansky (talk)18:55, 22 March 2014

Not really. I do have a preference for meaningful headings, though, which makes "RFD discussion 1" somewhat less attractive for me. How about something like "RFD: 02–03/2014"? Shorter and carries the same information. Though in fact, I am not sure what the issue is — I guess these titles are usually copy-pasted anyway (or not even that), which makes their length less of a concern.

Also, I would rather avoid inspecting existing talk pages — it would make the script slower and/or more complicated, even/especially if I did some clever trick to grab all the section titles in a single API request.

Keφr19:18, 22 March 2014

What is the value of providing both the month and the year of the discussion? If you want to avoid ambiguity of headings, providing the year should suffice for an overwhelming majority of cases. On another note, I think colons in headings should be avoided unless there is a strong overriding reason. So "RFD 2014" is something I could perfectly live with. In general, if a piece of information is dispensable in a heading, it should not be there, IMHO.

Dan Polansky (talk)20:23, 22 March 2014

It may be of use to those who remember what policies/users were around while the discussion took place. Say, in June we vote to change the CFI. Or we have a huge influx of Wikipedians who skew RFDs in an inclusionist direction. Or we get an upgrade to MediaWiki, which makes some template, Lua or JavaScript hacks obsolete. Or some other "huge thing" happens: from my experience, these tend to have a timeframe of months or quarters rather than years. Now you can learn that the discussion took place before that happened just by looking at the header. A minor utility, but utility nevertheless.

I explained myself. How short do you want the section titles and why? Do you frequently type these manually?

Keφr21:21, 22 March 2014

Long section headings make the table of contents harder to overview, and make it look messy. The prevalent archiving practice for RFD and RFV was to not provide year and month and it served us well, as far as I know. The year and month information in available in the RFD discussion itself and does not need to be in the section heading, IMHO. The practice has shown that the month and year is not needed; anything else is speculation, IMHO. But I do not think I am going to convince you.

Dan Polansky (talk)08:26, 23 March 2014

Hey Kephir, I think you added a space to the wrong place. I've written up the fix on the talk page.

Pengo (talk)21:40, 22 March 2014

About the word "背信"

Sorry, I don't speak English well.

私は英語が不得手ですので、申し訳ありませんが日本語で記述します。 私は、「背信する」という動詞が存在しないと主張します。その根拠を以下に述べます。 日本国内の著名な辞書のうち、『大辞林 (Daijirin)』や『大辞泉 (Daijisen)』はオンラインで閲覧できます。これらの辞書では、サ行変格活用の動詞に関する項目には「スル」という表示がなされます。しかし、上に挙げた2つの辞書で「背信」という項目を調べても、「スル」という表示が見つかりません。これについては、下記のリンク先を閲覧してご確認ください。

このことは、他の著名な辞書でも同様です。例えば、『広辞苑 (Kōjien)』や『日本国語大辞典 (Nihon Kokugo Daijiten)』でも、同じ結果でした。 また、私は日本語話者ですが、「背信する」という言葉を使った論文、小説、新聞記事などを1度も見たことがありません。


Lombroso (talk)12:27, 22 March 2014


Wiktionary does not (usually) rely on other dictionaries, but on actual real-world use. I have added 背信する to RFV; if nobody finds the verb to be in use, it will be deleted. There is a quite large backlog in RFV, unfortunately.

Keφr13:27, 22 March 2014

Hi Kephir, I noticed your edit to the Hungarian section of logika. The -ika in this case was clearly defined as an "ending", not a suffix. The two are different.

Panda10 (talk)13:26, 20 March 2014

Well, yes. But if this "ending" coincides completely by accident with the diminutive suffix -ika, why put it in the "Etymology" section? (Except to perhaps explicitly deny any connection.)

Keφr15:30, 20 March 2014

You mean just to add the category explicitly at the bottom? What good would that do? There are about 40+ suffix-like endings in Hungarian where the ending cannot be connected to the base word as we normally do with suffixes. So while there is no such thing as log + -ika, the -ika suffix/ending is clearly distinguishable in many words such as matematika, klinika, technika, etc. and is able to create new words, mostly from words freshly borrowed from other languages.

Panda10 (talk)18:14, 20 March 2014

No, the category link was actually more problematic. If I understand the purpose of these categories correctly, they are supposed to reflect etymologies; "suffixed with -ika" implies that an "-ika" suffix was added to some other word. Which is not the case with these.

So after removing the template, I thought: if this is just a coincidence, why mention the suffix at all?

Keφr18:23, 20 March 2014

Sometimes the suffix is not immediately added to the entry, but to some version of its root. Although these 40+ established suffix-like endings are not always independent suffixes, they are important from the point of view of the Hungarian language, because they are – at least partly – productive. They are able to create (to naturalize) new words borrowed from foreign languages, and they can derive new words from an existing naturalized word. These elements evidently play role in the speech perception, so the morphology must render an account of them. Collecting them in categories can be useful for language learners. Seeing the same suffix in multiple examples will assists their recognition in other words.

Panda10 (talk)18:43, 20 March 2014

It looks to me like you created the page as a redirect to itself. It might be good to fix that.

Mr. Granger (talkcontribs)22:14, 18 March 2014

This template has been triggering a script error for a while now. I tried to fix it, but nothing seems to work. Can you do it please?

CodeCat15:51, 16 March 2014

Nothing seems to work, because you have not read the error message. The module tried to inflect the adjective "pl-decl-adj-i" according to its database of inflection patterns, but there is no match, because all patterns try to match a consonant before the final vowel(s), and "-" is not a consonant.

I just restored the November 2012 version. Should work just like before conversion.

Keφr16:05, 16 March 2014

I did read the error message and I'm a bit annoyed that you assumed I didn't. I tried to fix the problem by overriding things so that it would use "-ni" as the word instead of "pl-decl-adj-i" but my override was ignored by the module.

CodeCat16:14, 16 March 2014

I stand corrected. It seems that the override actually works. Maybe you forgot to purge the cache.

Keφr16:23, 16 March 2014

Awa improvement

It would be cool if your aWa could use template:fake== and template:fake=== for headings other than the leading one. Thus, in Talk:liquid nitrogen, the table of content would contain no "Liquid something", "liquid nitrogen", and "liquid oxygen".

Dan Polansky (talk)15:38, 16 March 2014
Edited by author.
Last edit: 16:12, 16 March 2014

Yes, I thought of that too… I think I will change the level-two header to use {{fake==}}, but leave the level-three headers alone. First, because handling them correctly would be rather tricky, and second because I think having them in the ToC is actually somewhat useful.

Keφr15:58, 16 March 2014

Better template:fake== than nothing; level-3 headings are rare in RFD and RFV anyway.

Dan Polansky (talk)16:02, 16 March 2014
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