Module talk:za-pron

Tones

@Suzukaze-c. Hi. Should the module even cover tones? The writing system has no tones and we don't use any tone marks or numbers. Displaying a default tone seems misleading. If tones are mandatory, then it would be a good idea to generate an error, if the tone is not supplied. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:45, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

There are tones though. Instead of numbers or diacritics they use letters. (Standard Zhuang#Phonology) —suzukaze (t・c) 00:50, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes. I understand. The module shouldn't produce default tones, IMO, otherwise it will produce wrong tones. I have fixed your link.--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:54, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand. Is the Standard Zhuang alphabet deficient/unreliable in transcribing tones? (-z≠˧˩?) —suzukaze (t・c) 01:03, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

It may be all right. If you have done it according to the Wikipedia page, then it's alright. Sorry for the confusion. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:14, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

It's alright. —suzukaze (t・c) 16:18, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Feature for Old Spelling

Hi @suzukaze-c, is it possible to use this module to display the obsolete spellings? — AWESOME meeos ！ * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 07:36, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

mw.log('not yet'). —suzukaze (t・c) 07:42, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

@suzukaze-c lol haha（≧∇≦）— AWESOME meeos ！ * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 08:11, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos: enjoy. —suzukaze (t・c) 08:12, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Aumwnz

@Suzukaze-c It seems to be too greedy when splitting syllables here. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 07:30, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done; I didn't think about syllables starting in vowels :D —Suzukaze-c◆◆ 18:39, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Haha, thanks! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Tone number for 5th tone in new loanwords

@Suzukaze-c The tone number for the 5th tone (no tone letter) in new loanwords should be 5, not 1, e.g. Aumwnz. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:51, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

OK,  Done —Suzukaze-c◆◆ 22:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

(example of the fifth tone being written explicitly: guŋƽcanɜcuɜyiƽceɜ —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 01:07, 3 February 2020 (UTC))

@Suzukaze-c: Yeah, the Yongbei Zhuang Bible also writes it explicitly, like Yozhanq. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:12, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

denyingj

@Suzukaze-c It seems to parse this word incorrectly (de nyingj instead of den yingj). — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

(I need to learn how to implement a more elegant way of determining syllables... —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 02:12, 10 May 2018 (UTC))

(How I parsed it: denying.../d͡ʒ/. Wyang (talk) 02:18, 10 May 2018 (UTC))

(@Wyang: haha :D — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC))

Apostrophes

@Suzukaze-c, should apostrophes appear in the tone number and hyphenation forms? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 09:51, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

The numbers/hyphens should make apostrophes redundant. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 09:56, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Thanks! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 10:02, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Syllabification

@Justinrleung I used this template in ndwengouj and found that the template syllabifies the terms as ndwe‧ngouj instead of ndwen‧gouj, while "ndwe" does not appear to be a valid syllable in Zhuang. --TongcyDai (talk) 19:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, the 1957–1982 spelling of the term is incorrect (should be ƌɯengouз, I guess?) --TongcyDai (talk) 19:32, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The pronunciation issue can be fixed with an apostrophe, but I'm not sure what we could do for thhe 1957–1982 spelling. @Fish bowl, any ideas for how this can be fixed (manually or automatically)? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

we could add hacks on top of hacks, or someone could give the module the proper rewrite it needs —Fish bowl (talk) 00:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Justinrleung, Fish bowl There are actually a set of rules about how to use the apostrophe. According to this book, the rules are as the following (To simplify the description, all "consonant" and "vowel" refer to letters, not phonemes):

1. If a consonant is preceded and followed by a vowel:
   1. The consonant should be considered part of the following syllable, and no apostrophe (隔音符号) is needed. For example:

      byagaq (“mandarin fish”) is pronounced as bya—gaq

   2. If the consonant is part of the preceding syllable, then the apostrophe must be used to separate the preceding and following syllables to avoid confusion in spelling. For example:

      sim'in (“to feel sorry for”) is pronounced as sim—in

      coh'iq (“childhood name”) is pronounced as coh—iq

      deng'iek (“to suffer from hunger”) is pronounced as deng—iek

      dwg'eiq (“to be pleased, to agree”) is pronounced as dwg—eiq

      guh'unj (“to act in a loveable manner”) is pronounced as guh—unj

2. If there are vowels both before and after two consecutive consonants:
   1. The former consonant is part of the preceding syllable and the latter consonant is part of the following syllable, and no apostrophe is needed. For example:

      banhaet (“morning”) is pronounced as ban—haet

   2. If both consonants are part of either the preceding or the following syllable, it is necessary to use a apostrophe to separate the two syllables. For example:

      seng'eiq (“business”) is pronounced as seng—eiq

      gya'gyauq (“family education”) is pronounced as gya—gyauq

      gyo'ndaej (“thanks to”) is pronounced as gyo—ndaej

3. If the ending of the preceding syllable is a vowel and the beginning of the following syllable is also a vowel, then the two vowels must be separated by an apostrophe. For example:

   go'ien (“tobacco”) is pronounced as go—ien

   da'w (“a kind of eye disease”) is pronounced as da—w

4. When the tone markers z, j, x, q, h, and the stop consonant codas p, t, k, b, d, g are connected to other consonant letters, they, along with the preceding consonant letters, are part of the preceding syllable, while the following consonant letters are part of the subsequent syllable, and there is no need for an apostrophe. For example:

   biengzbeih (“dragonfly”) is pronounced as biengz—beih

   conjyez (“to switch to another line of business or profession”) is pronounced as conj—yez

   conxbengx (“turning shovel”) is pronounced as conx—bengx

   cuengqhag (“to switch to another line of business or profession”) is pronounced as cuengq—hag

   capmax (“to hold a horse stance”) is pronounced as cap—max

   batdin (“foot basin”) is pronounced as bat—din

   bekfwngz (“to applaud;”) is pronounced as bek—fwngz

   caebcomz (“to collect; to gather”) is pronounced as caeb—comz

   faedfwh (“suddenly”) is pronounced as faed—fwh

   daegdaengq (“specially; purposely”) is pronounced as daeg—daengq

Hope this helps! --TongcyDai (talk) 11:15, 21 December 2023 (UTC)