Talk:澙

RFV discussion: November 2017–February 2018

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澙

-- Dokurrat (talk) 16:04, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat -- Wow, just realized you were RFV-ing the entire page, not just the ZH. It pretty clearly exists in Japanese, and is the second half of the name of a prefecture: Niigata is spelled 新潟 (Nīgata) in Japanese. C.f. also various entries at Weblio and Kotobank for Japanese. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

@Eirikr: 澙 seems to be an 異体字 of 潟. —suzukaze (t・c) 02:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC))

Thank you! At the standard font size on my screen, I completely didn't see the extra horizontal stroke.

For clarity, the character Dokurrat listed is 澙, which I initially mistook for 潟. Note the additional horizontal stroke at the center of the first character, lacking in the second.

This variant does have some online presence: google:"新澙" produces about 21K ostensible hits, and the first page at least appears to be all Chinese. Adding particle は (ha) to select just for Japanese and looking at Google Books, google books:"新澙" "は" gives us 10K ostensible hits. Some still appear to be Chinese, but for the Japanese, it's hard to tell how many of these are scannos, since Google only shows "snippet view" based on their sometimes-faulty OCR results. Notably, WWWJDIC doesn't list this character, and it's not in Nelson or Shogakukan's 国語大辞典 either, though all three include the 潟 variant without the extra stroke.

I suspect we might be able to ferret out enough CFI-worthy citations to retain the JA entry as a rare alternative form. As it is, this form is so rare that I'm not sure I care enough to put in the legwork... but at least some of that could be the flu talking.  :‑P ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 03:31, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Okay... I think I do have seen Chinese usage in the internet. By far under our investigation ablility, I think a "notes" section is needed explaining that the Chinese usage is no earlier than internet era. @Wyang, Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c, Tooironic, Zcreator Any opinions? Dokurrat (talk) 22:38, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• Rfv failed for Japanese and Korean. The Chinese usage is kept. Dokurrat (talk) 13:37, 16 February 2018 (UTC)