Talk:have the foggiest
Origins Of the Phrase[edit]
Whilst this addition by an anon. didn’t exactly belong in the entry as it was, it looks like it contains some useful information that may be integrated into this entry and/or other entries at some point:
[[Charles Dickens]] is the first author quoted by the [[OED]] for the expression "foggy idea": "A dull and foggy sort of idea," in [[Barnaby Rudge]]. Curiously, the word "foggiest" seems to be used by Brits most often without any expressed referent, starting (in print) in 1917, with "I haven't the foggiest." Or, as the [[OED]] puts it, the word is "Used negatively in superl., with ellipsis of idea, notion."
13:46, 08 December 2009 (GMT)
† ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 04:16, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Shouldn't this be at not have the foggiest (now a redirect) or perhaps better at have the foggiest. Certainly this doesn't only occur in the first person singular.
I think there is always a negative associated with this idiom, but the following kinds of usage are not rare:
- I don't think he had the foggiest about selecting the best lemma entry.
- I wonder whether he has the foggiest about what he's doing.
This is what favors the non-negative as lemma with redirects from the most common forms, including those with -n't. DCDuring TALK 01:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a canonical negative polarity item in English, found only in negatives (including negation of the main clause when the NPI occurs in a subordinate clause) and questions (including indirect questions like "I wonder whether..."), just like any in "John does not have any potatoes", "I don't think John has any potatoes", "Does John have any potatoes?", "I wonder whether John has any potatoes" but *"John has any potatoes". I'd say move to have the foggiest or even the foggiest since I think "have got the foggiest" is also used. —Angr 11:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- Should any (explicit-verb-containing) negative polarity item contain "not" in the headword? I think not, though there may turn out to be exceptions. Of course, redirects from the most common negative containing forms might be helpful. DCDuring TALK 16:50, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- Move to have the foggiest, retain the redirect (would not be an ambiguous redirect). Mglovesfun (talk) 17:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think "idea" is an essential part of undIerstanding the phrase, even though it's dropped in some forms. Suggest we first create foggiest idea (idiom) and then either redirect other terms there or to have the foggiest idea (have the foggiest could be an alt. form). Facts707 (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
- Having said that, I see "foggiest clue", "foggiest notion", etc. are not uncommon. I also updated foggiest with a second sense. It seems to make foggiest idea and have the foggiest idea less useful. Also, "get the foggiest..." is also popular.Facts707 (talk) 22:41, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
- Move to have the foggiest, retain the redirect (would not be an ambiguous redirect). Mglovesfun (talk) 17:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- Should any (explicit-verb-containing) negative polarity item contain "not" in the headword? I think not, though there may turn out to be exceptions. Of course, redirects from the most common negative containing forms might be helpful. DCDuring TALK 16:50, 19 March 2013 (UTC)