Talk:introvert

I believe that the definition, as it stands now, reinforces the belief that introverts are self-centered. Many introverts, including myself, find the frequent characterization of introverts as selfish, sullen, unfriendly or mentally ill to be symptomatic of a vast misunderstanding,. and as such, quite biased; not to mention inaccurate, offensive, and even symptomatic of a kind of oppression. If you don't like my edit (for whatever reason) that is fine. However, simply reverting to the previous version does nothing to address the problem of bias -- which I mentioned in my edit notes. I will not simply change the definition back to reflect my previous edits; that would be childish. However, I want to note my strong objection to the (possibly unconscious) implication carried by the current definition. I would hope that respect for Wiktionary's Neutral Point of View Policy will take this into account and prompt a revision that is acceptable to all parties.

The Misunderstood Introvert
Innies and Outies
Caring for your Introvert
Wiktionary: Neutral Point of View

--Sweet byrd 18:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

RFV discussion: March 2018

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introvert

Rfv-sense: an anterior portion of some worms capable of retraction

Tagged but not listed. And now cited Kiwima (talk) 02:28, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I've fixed up the definition a bit. @Robbie SWE, in the future, when you put an RFV tag on a word or sense, you have to create the corresponding section here (although you could've verified this one just by googling it). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry about that! I completely forgot about it, but I promise to be more careful from now on. --Robbie SWE (talk) 19:47, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Considering the sheer number of bad edits that Robbie spots, I'm glad they're just getting tagged. Posting here would be good, but we don't want to discourage him from the great work he does do. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:52, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 10:15, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Possible Freudian etymological source for "Introvert"

Not to alarm anyone, but I was reading Beyond the Pleasure Principle, and on pg.51 of vol.18 of the Standard Edition Freud uses the term "Introversion" to refer to an earlier stage in Psychoanalytic research in relation to his paper On Narcissism published in 1914. It's been a few years since I've read the latter, and I don't remember the term Introversion being used, but given the close association of Jung and Freud in the years prior it is not impossible that the term "introvert" originally had an explicitly sexual/libidinal connotation as his use of the term does in the above referenced section of BPP that was subsequently modified by Jung. Of course, caution is key here and more research must be done before anything conclusive enough to warrant editing is found. Thanatos&Eros (talk) 09:20, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

An update, before I go to bed. A quick search through both On Narcissism and the Freud/Jung correspondences yielded the following: dating back to 1909 is the first written use of the term "introversion" by Jung in the letters. Jung equates introversion to Dementia Praecox, which, for those of you who aren't aware, refers here to Bleuler's work on the subject; specifically he must be relating this to Bleuler's definition of "Autism", deriving from Freud's "Auto-Erotism" (ultimately from Havelock Ellis' work) referring to sexual, libidinal energy turned inward, which in the case of Bleuler means a patient so schizophrenic that they are totally consumed by fantasies, which here Jung says was the cause of a depersonalization episode in one of his colleagues (letter 148j for reference). Evidently, Freud disagrees with this equation of Dem. Prea. exclusively with auto-erotism (Introversion by Jung's terminology), and comments in a footnote of the Dynamic of Transference (1912) that he believes its an error to see it specifically "as a characteristic of dementia praecox". Although this comment could also be related to the rejection by Freud of Bleuler's term "Autism" itself as a replacement for "Auto-erotism", which he saw as a somewhat silly attempt to draw appeal for psychoanalysis to a wider audience, even though according to Bleuler they were distinct. I apologize if this is somewhat condensed, check the discussion page for Autism, as well as the entry for Autism itself for a more detailed overview of the related research. Thanatos&Eros (talk) 11:06, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

It would be quite helpful by the way, if anyway could find the first use of "introvert" by Jung instead of "introversion", as the transformation of a symptom or behavior into a personality type may have significantly altered its content, although at this stage its quite clear the two terms are deeply related. For reference which confirms the above in Jung, see Symbols of Transformation Part 2 II. Thanatos&Eros (talk) 11:35, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

It's quite a funny thing when all your assumptions turn out to be true. I really should be sleeping but, I have now found what is definitively the first published mention by Jung twinning Introversion and Extraversion as psychological types, both in definite relation to Freud's theories of libido. It is on pg. 16 of the (relatively) recently translated C.G. Jung/Hans Schmid-Guisan correspondences (of which there are no other editions at the moment in English). Check it for yourself. I'm going to bed, but I'll be back as soon as I finish up some irl business to perform the necessary edits. Oh and yes, the exact term "introvert" is also present in the correspondences themselves, and earlier than cited in this article, but is of less importance to the development of the term than what's in the page referenced above. Thanatos&Eros (talk) 12:14, 10 March 2022 (UTC)