Talk:lekker stuk

RFD discussion: November 2016–August 2017

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lekker stuk

SOP (sense 2): lekker (“hot, sexy”) + stuk (“hottie”). Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:17, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

• SoP in Dutch, but not for hottie in English. A possible keep. DonnanZ (talk) 00:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

  @Donnanz I'm sorry, but I don't get your reasoning. Do you suggest lekker stuk is kept because it translates hottie? If so, there are plenty non-SOP translations for that, and stuk is one of them. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 12:59, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

OK, you know better than I do. You're not proposing deletion of sense 1 though, and the hottie sense (no Dutch translation there, by the way), is that not placing emphasis on stuk, e.g. she's a real hottie? SoP terms can be a minefield, and I wouldn't propose an entry for brown cow. But for the sake of completeness, if that's another meaning of lekker stuk? DonnanZ (talk) 13:55, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

But on the other hand, if there are multiple meanings of lekker stuk, it may be better to delete the lot, and replace with examples under lekker and stuk. DonnanZ (talk) 14:48, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Well, if the figurative meaning is ruled SOP, I don't see how the literal meaning "tasty piece" couldn't be considered SOP. But I'll add that as well. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 15:17, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

SOP (sense 1): lekker (“tasty”) + stuk (“piece”). Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 15:17, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Both senses are SoP, delete the entire entry IMO. Lekker stuk as "tasty piece" is textbook SoP; lekker stuk as "hottie" might've been kept as being idiomatic had it not been for the fact that both constituent elements have the relevant romantic/sexual senses listed there as well: lekker can mean hot by itself, and similarly stuk can mean attractive person. In English an equivalent situation would be hot babe, which I think you will agree is SoP. — Kleio (t · c) 18:55, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

The difference with hot babe is that at least babe is a literal use (or arguably its primary meaning), while stuk is used figuratively (just like lekker) and is more commonly used for its more neutral senses, making this an idiomatic phrase. The first sense (tasty piece) is the equivalent of hot babe to me. I'd support deletion of sense 1 and keep of sense 2 (not bolded since I'm not sure my opinion counts yet).

I can totally imagine someone (someone learning the language, or a native not having heard of it yet) reading a phrase (e.g. Ik zag een lekker stuk daarnet) and being stumped on the meaning, thus needing to look it up in our dictionary. They shouldn't have to do the detective work of noticing both of those constituent words can be used in similar senses and putting two and two together. --Azertus (talk) 10:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

That's how the SoP rules here work (AFAICT) though: if the meaning of a multiple-word entry can be understood without too much difficulty by looking at the individual entries that constitute it, it is sum-of-parts and should not be here. In this case, I don't think it's really detective work anyway: both entries list the relevant senses (both labeled colloquial, too, making the connection even more obvious), they are not difficult to find, and the combination of the two does not have any unexpected change in meaning. From what I've seen in other discussions on this page and from WT:SOP, the end user is in fact expected to be able to put two and two together: that's pretty much the crux of the SoP deletion criterion. — Kleio (t · c) 15:42, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

It's crucially different from, say, lekker ding ("sexy person") , which is clearly idiomatic and should have an entry: ding is, after all, never really used by itself to refer to a person at all; only in the common expression lekker ding does it acquire this meaning. Both lekker and stuk however have independent and quite common meanings that, when combined, make the meaning of lekker stuk entirely obvious and thus SoP. — Kleio (t · c) 15:50, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

ding however is used for persons (as far as I can tell exclusively for women) in combination with an attributive adjective: leuk ding, knap ding, lief ding, etc. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that makes lekker stuk idiomatic and certainly not according to WT:SOP; in any case both elements are also common with the meanings "hot" or "hottie". The most that can be said is that lekker stuk is a pleonastic epithet, which can be mentioned in both entries or included in a usage example. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

• I defintely think it's SoP. Including lekker ding, as proven by L.B.D. above. This is just a fairly rare sense of stuk/ding combined with a very normal though not perfectly literal sense of lekker. So delete. Kolmiel (talk) 11:54, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
• Kaaskop present and saying delete. Lingo Bingo Dingo, your profile says Dutch is your mother tongue. You think "lekker ding" is used exclusively for women? Prepare to have your mind blown.

As for "lekker stuk": it's SoP. I can also have a klein stuk (small piece) or a groot stuk. (big piece) lekker stuk as in "hot babe" is something I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say. I've heard someone sing it though: Malle Babbe, but in the song it's followed by "dier van plezier" (animal of pleasure), another thing I've never heard anyone say. A stuk can already be found here so this is no different from hot babe. If you disagree you need to start creating pages for waanzinnig stuk, ongelofelijk stuk, prachtig stuk, superstuk and megastuk. Stuk is rarely used with an adjective anyway.

Lekker ding is probably not valid either. Dutch wiktionary removed it in 2011 saying "not suitable for dictionary". Just "ding" in Van Dale says "waarderende aanduiding voor een persoon" (appreciative description of a person) with some examples with adjective. Oddly, it can be used in a non-appreciative way as well (but it's not as common): lelijk ding (ugly thing), dom ding. (dumb thing)

Conclusion, cast it away. W3ird N3rd (talk) 04:34, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

RFD failed. 1 or 2(?) keep votes, and apparently not very enthusiastic ones. 4 delete votes. Clearly there is consensus to delete. PseudoSkull (talk) 19:29, 13 August 2017 (UTC)