Talk:sodomy

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In the sense "an inhospitable person" - claimed to be a new sense due to reinterpretation of the Biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Any evidence it is actually used in this way? I'd be loath to call someone inhospitable a sodomite... — Paul G 05:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Similarly for sodomy. — Paul G 06:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The exact definition for this new sense would be "an inhospitable man who attempts to get intimate with his male guest by force or coercion." For verification see Genesis. Dart evader 07:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Dart Evader, I presume you're being tongue in cheek? (A quick look at the s:Bible (King James)/Genesis makes it seem that way.)

Depends which cheek.

There's definitely a discussion on various blogs (try googling "sodomite inhospitable") about what sodomite should mean...things along of the lines of "so and so called me a sodomist...but I see here that this Biblical translation focuses more on inhospitableness than buggering...so he just called me inhospitable; he's the one who started it, which is inhospitable, ergo he's really the sodomist here!!" I'm not sure that this kind of citation passes the WT:CFI use vs. mention distinction.

I added an rfv-sense for the "An immoral person." definition as well. A quick look did not show instances where it was not being used to mean (often as an insult, whether substantiated or not) one who engages in anal sex or homosexuality in general. I also added a specific definition as "one who practices sodomy" as this probably be there somewhere :-) --Jeffqyzt 14:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Jeffqyzt, I was deadly grave. I daresay that what we are dealing with is nothing more than just another example of the Newspeak. The easiest way to stuff an old word with new meaning is to put that new sense on some authoritative dictionary. Then, if someone questions the legitimacy of the new usage, he or she would be referred to the dictionary definition. Voilà! --Dart evader 15:22, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Dart evader. The discussion is merely a discussion without verification. I am removing the senses. it is purile sophistry. Unless we are directed to the "new interpretation" mentioned it goes. Besides, this word is supposed to be English. English never used it in the senses described. It may be so in Hebrew, but I doubt it. Andrew massyn 15:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Disputed senses and discussion

1. An immoral person.
2. An inhospitable person [see Usage Notes below].

• The usage of the term in the literal sense, inhabitant of Sodom, dates back as far as the Bible. The usage of the term to mean an immoral person dates back to at least the first century BCE. The usage of the term by English-speaking peoples to mean a homosexual dates back to the 14th century CE. Historically, many translators substituted the word in place of various Hebrew words (all with the basic meaning of immoral person) when translating the Bible into other languages. However, the precise substitution varied in different languages, and thus the term can carry starkly different connotations in different languages. For example, in Norwegian and German, a sodomite is a person who has sexual intercourse with animals; in contrast, many English-speaking people use the term as a synonym for homosexual. A further dissertation of the word can be found here.
• Recent re-interpretations of the Biblical fable of Sodom and Gommorha echo the earliest understanding of them: that the cities were destroyed because of their inhabitants' inhospitality, not their homosexuality. This would explain why the word sodomite is beginning to be used to designate an inhospitable person.

• The usage of the term Sodomy to mean immorality dates back to at least the first century BCE. Originally, the term was used by Jewish rabbis with the meaning of inhospitality. The term did not acquire sexual connotations until after the first century CE, when it was substituted for the Hebrew word for temple prostitute in Christian translations of the Bible. Historically, many translators substituted the word in place of various Hebrew words (all with the basic meaning of immoral person) when translating the Bible into other languages. However, the precise substitution varied in different languages, and thus the term can carry starkly different connotations in different languages. The usage of the term by English-speaking peoples to mean male homosexuality dates back to the 14th century CE. In German, the term Sodomie refers to a person who has sexual intercourse with animals. In Norwegian, the term sodomi carries both the original and the sexual connotations, and refers to inhospitality or to a male who has sexual intercourse with animals. A further dissertation of the word can be found here.}}

Deletion discussion

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sodomy

RFV-sense "immorality in general". - -sche (discuss) 01:54, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

In Turkish, we use the word "puştluk". It means both "sodomy" and "immorality". --Furious (talk) 05:27, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

But the disputed definition is English.--Dmol (talk) 08:43, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I think that sense reflects what many young children (to whom the other definitions have not been explained) are told or gather from the way the word is used. It reminds me of the explanation my father gave me for SNAFU: "situation normal all fouled up". I was perfectly happy with that explanation until early adulthood. DCDuring TALK 15:02, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

• RFV failed: no quotations provided. As an auxi check, the sense is absent from MWO and AHD. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:27, 21 August 2013 (UTC)