Talk:where is a hotel

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where is a hotel

doesn't sound very natural --Felonia 14:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

delete if anything, it should be where is the hotel or I'm looking for a hotel. -- Prince Kassad 14:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Delete or move. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:49, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Keep or move to "can you direct me to a hotel" or similar. --Yair rand (talk) 22:05, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe are there any hotels around here? --Felonia 22:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't we just need (deprecated template usage) where is - it can be followed by the noun of your choice. SemperBlotto 08:43, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggested same approach for "I need" but we seem to need I need a condom, I need a doctor, I need chopsticks, I need an interpreter, I need a dictionary, I need a pencil, I need your help, I need an umbrella, I need toilet paper, I need a pen, I need soap, I need water, I need shampoo, I need petrol, I need aspirin, I need shelter, I need privacy, I need money, I need food, I need clothes, I need toothpaste, I need a towel, I need a toothbrush, I need a map, I need a lawyer, I need a guide, I need a drink, I need a bath, I need a postcard, I need a razor, I need a compass, I need a Bible, I need a taxi, I need a diaper, I need a battery, I need internet access, I need Internet access, I need writing paper, I need sunblock lotion, I need a postage stamp, I need a sanitary napkin. I lost that battle, as well as the battle against "I don't speak X" -entries, but I truly hope that we do the sensible thing and don't start a new line of "where is" -entries. --Hekaheka 15:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I would hope we're still fighting that battle. DAVilla 13:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I suppose that we can just consider the phrasebook as an opportunity for some of our contributors to engage in trivial translation drills. The appropriateness and usability of the phrases is then not a concern. And we can easily dramatically boost our entry count without having to think or work hard. DCDuring TALK 18:53, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Keep for now or move. 2,300,000 Google hits for the phrase is fairly okay for a phrasebook entry. Also, let Felonia who is Wonderfool not determine out RFD agenda. --Dan Polansky 14:07, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Keep. This is the kind of awkward, unnatural, found-only-in-a-phrasebook expression that helps native speakers more rapidly identify non-native speakers. DCDuring TALK 14:42, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Sarcasm is the best communication policy :p. What is the native phrase to which you would move it? Sure, I am just an ignorant non-native who goes by Google numbers as a cheap heuristic. If "can you direct me to a hotel" with its 17,900 Google hits and 33 Google Books hits sounds much more native, then the heuristic is really broken for phrasebook. --Dan Polansky 14:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

That's interesting. My first reaction was to agree with WF and DCDuring that this doesn't sound very natural — I would ask something like "Where is there a hotel near here?" or "Are there any hotels in the area?" — but some of the Google hits look like genuine native speakers genuinely asking where an indefinite hotel is. —Ruakh_TALK 17:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

In any event, "where is 'X' | 'an X' | 'the X'?" are general forms for asking location questions. The "Where is a hotel?" form invites non-informative answers like "In the downtown areas of every city and major town." or requires the helpful respondent to ask clarifying questions.

For an encounter with a stranger in a language not one's own extra politeness is advisable. (A high level of politeness is also an indicator that the speaker is not local.) Here are a few ways of saying this kind of thing that seem natural to me (All should be introduced by "Excuse me." or "Can you help me?".):

"I'm looking for the X Hotel. Do you know how to get there?"

"I'm looking for a good|cheap|convenient hotel/motel near X. What would you recommend?"

"Where could I find a good|cheap hotel near X?"

"Do you know where I could find a good|cheap hotel near X?"

"Do you know of a good|cheap hotel near X?"

"Do you know where I could get a room for the night?"

"Where is a hotel?" doesn't give enough explicit information to the hearer, though it does convey implicit information: that the speaker is not a native English speaker and doesn't even have a good phrasebook. I bought NTC's Dictionary of Everyday American English Expressions (US$13.95 list price) at an early stage of the discussion of our still-born phrasebook. It has some 7,000 expressions in 774 situationally defined categories. I'd be much more accepting of phrasebook entries if the advocates troubled to break out their phrasebooks (or get some if they don't yet have any). DCDuring TALK 18:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't sound English. How about where can I find a hotel? Equinox ◑ 15:39, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good. --Yair rand (talk) 05:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I think we need a policy, asap. I just noticed that we also have I lost my bag, I lost my backpack, I lost my handbag, I lost my glasses, I lost my keys, I lost my wallet. What about I lost my mind? It gets 485,000 Google hits, and is obviously a common phrase, if that's the criterion. Some of the things that get lost in Google more frequently than a bacpack include house (23,5M), hope (2M), control (1.5M), home (1.3M), ticket (1M), job (730k), wits (677k), money (675k), cat (196k), notebook (105k), passport (103k), credit card (100k), pen (92k), calculator (80k), cellphone (70k)... It's also interesting that I lost my wife gets 21.5 M hits but I lost my husband only yields 105k! Does this mean that men care 200 times more of their wives than vice versa? --Hekaheka 13:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

If the currently discussed and proposed policy would be in force (occurrence in three independent phrasebooks, Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2010-10/Phrasebook CFI), it would keep the phrase:

• where is a hotel - [1][2][3][4]

--Dan Polansky 07:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I suppose we could have either many variants on the same page or many variants as full entries. This particular expression might warrant a new register tag, perhaps "basic only" or "basic", suggesting that is only minimally adequate. To me it seems barely one step above pidgin. DCDuring TALK 18:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

moved to where can I find a hotel -- Prince Kassad 21:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)