User talk:Ananas022
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Hey guys, what do you think is the hardest part of editing here?
Welcome[edit]
Ты тупой, как чайник, но ты не горяч - Heronwater
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As discussed off-wiki, please try to slow down a bit, and see if you can improve the entries you have created :) Thadh (talk) 11:03, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
Wrong Russian synonyms[edit]
Are you a native speaker of Russian? Many synonyms you are adding are simply wrong or at best half-right. Please don't add synonyms unless you truly understand the semantics and usage of both words. Tetromino (talk) 13:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes I speak Russian, why did you erased all my work? Ananas022 (talk) 15:46, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Do you even know russian. Those words are very similar in semantics. maybe not 100% the same but similar. Ananas022 (talk) 15:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Why you deleted everything, you should at least have known that these words clearly have the same meaning. They are synonyms. Yes they have other meanings too, but if you can even check on the Russian wiktionary it agrees with me. Only the English Wiktionary is flawed because it doesn't understand the language in full just fragments of it. There is a lot of work to be done. Some of these words I don;t use much but many are very common. Ananas022 (talk) 15:53, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Good/well/fine are all synonyms that have pretty much the same meaning the same with all those words I edited. Ananas022 (talk) 15:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Ok so гад and отморозок do have different slighty different meanings but let's be honest arn't all bastards just as bad as thugs monsters etc like гад is reptile so it also is a monster they have litterally the same meaning, I do not understand what you mean by half-right. Ananas022 (talk) 16:00, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- чайник and болван both have the same meaning they mean someone who is dumb and stupid, now I havn't ever heard anybody use чайник before in my personal life but in the description that this wiktionary has then they have the same meaning a dummy good for nothing so it is dumb and stupid person. Ananas022 (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Ananas022: Based on my experience, the word чайник is primarily a computer related slang, which was actively used several decades ago. The computers were becoming more widespread and many middle-aged people had to start using computers for the first time in their life. Unsurprisingly, many of them had major difficulties with that and couldn't comprehend even the most basic things. They were not just beginners, but also slow learners. Still labelling these people as "идиоты" wouldn't be very polite, so a new word "чайники" appeared. There were many books titled as "<чего-то-там> для чайников", primarily targeting computer illiterate people and typically presenting information as detailed step-by-step instructions. The other similar words from the computer related slang are юзверь and ламер. And there's also a similar non-computer related word рукожоп. -Ssvb (talk) 07:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Though the Russian Wiktionary lists non-computer examples of "чайник" from the modern literature too. -Ssvb (talk) Ssvb (talk) 07:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- interesting, thanks for the info Ananas022 (talk) 09:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Ananas022: Based on my experience, the word чайник is primarily a computer related slang, which was actively used several decades ago. The computers were becoming more widespread and many middle-aged people had to start using computers for the first time in their life. Unsurprisingly, many of them had major difficulties with that and couldn't comprehend even the most basic things. They were not just beginners, but also slow learners. Still labelling these people as "идиоты" wouldn't be very polite, so a new word "чайники" appeared. There were many books titled as "<чего-то-там> для чайников", primarily targeting computer illiterate people and typically presenting information as detailed step-by-step instructions. The other similar words from the computer related slang are юзверь and ламер. And there's also a similar non-computer related word рукожоп. -Ssvb (talk) 07:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Again I still don't understand what you mean by simply wrong, I have just proved that acording to your defenition here on wiktionary they have the same meaning therfore they are synonyms. Ananas022 (talk) 16:05, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @PUC, @Atitarev, @Tetromino: My understanding of the https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Entry_layout#Synonyms policy ("This is a list of words that have similar meanings as the word being defined. They are often very inexact.") is that inexact synonyms are allowed. The words чайник and болван are surely not the same. Still at least in some contexts they may be inter-exchangeable and convey roughly the same meaning. My personal opinion is that appending an inexact synonym to a large list of much better synonyms would be a useless noise. But if a word or a word sense has no other synonyms at all, then having even an inexact synonym is useful. I don't see anything wrong in @Ananas022's actions, but maybe the curators of the Russian section of the English Wiktionary see it differently? Is this something that should be discussed in Beer parlour? -Ssvb (talk) 23:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree sometimes, I was having a conversation about this why my friend about how some words we use are usually not synonyms in their daily use, but in certain contexts they can be so in a sense they are synonyms through their context. I do believe that having exact synonyms is better than having inexact synonyms. I also question myself about this. And I know I have made many mistakes that is why if you check my work you will see that I have deleted many words from the list because I felt like they weren't similar enough. The Russian Wiktionary and Google Translate has misinformed me to an extent because they claim said word is synonym but it is not, it is inexact synonym. But I also think that making the connection between words even if they are inexact synonyms is worth it. Now the reason why they are so many words that are similar to the words that I edited is because the Russian language, like the English language has a huge vocabulary and many words can have many meanings and those meanings can be synonyms so you end up with a huge list of words that I have in my edits. You can edit all my edits but pls don't block me and delete all my work next time. Ananas022 (talk) 00:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Ananas022, @Tetromino, @Ssvb: I agree with @Tetromino here, @Ananas022's notion of synonyms is too broad and were correctly reverted.
- Also, Russian entries and any templatised forms consistently use stress marks and
{{syn}}often use <q:QUALIFIER> to make sense clarifications. In above cases the use of synonyms was unjustified and unhelpful. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC)- If you know so much about synonyms why don't you edit the synonyms yourself. The wiktionary is lack of synonyms. Ananas022 (talk) 00:41, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Atitarev: You are right about the stress marks, so I'm taking back my "I don't see anything wrong in @Ananas022's actions" statement. But I still think that the primary source of this misunderstanding is that the official policy seems to explicitly allow broad synonyms. So this looks like a trap for the overly eager new contributors. -Ssvb (talk) 18:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Ananas022: I would suggest to add BabelBox information to your user page, so that people know what's your native language and don't need to make guesses about it. Don't trust Google Translate, because it makes a lot of mistakes. Also see https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/Model-collapse-explained-How-synthetic-training-data-breaks-AI (this also applies to the quality of automatic translation if it uses the output of another automatic translation for its training). Maybe it's best to focus on improving the articles about the words related to your professional area of expertise? I mean the words that you or people around you are actually using in real life. -Ssvb (talk) 17:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree sometimes, I was having a conversation about this why my friend about how some words we use are usually not synonyms in their daily use, but in certain contexts they can be so in a sense they are synonyms through their context. I do believe that having exact synonyms is better than having inexact synonyms. I also question myself about this. And I know I have made many mistakes that is why if you check my work you will see that I have deleted many words from the list because I felt like they weren't similar enough. The Russian Wiktionary and Google Translate has misinformed me to an extent because they claim said word is synonym but it is not, it is inexact synonym. But I also think that making the connection between words even if they are inexact synonyms is worth it. Now the reason why they are so many words that are similar to the words that I edited is because the Russian language, like the English language has a huge vocabulary and many words can have many meanings and those meanings can be synonyms so you end up with a huge list of words that I have in my edits. You can edit all my edits but pls don't block me and delete all my work next time. Ananas022 (talk) 00:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
@Tetromino, @Ssvb, @Atitarev, @PUC, Why do y'all edit the synonyms instead of leaving it all empty, y'all haven't added any improvement to the problem, just complaining about my edits when y'all haven't added none. Pls if you have the time add some synonyms to the words it really can help a lot of people and it very useful. — This unsigned comment was added by Ananas022 (talk • contribs).
- Pings don't work without a signature in the same edit - nobody received your notifications. Since you think that synonyms is a kind of requirement and you add remotely related or similar words, I think you should stay out of that area. We add synonyms when we see the need or have such a wish. It's better to have no synonyms or other other optional components than wrong synonyms.
- @Tetromino, @Ssvb, @PUC. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)