Talk:Northern California

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Northern California

If what Wikipedia says is correct, this isn't a set phrase at all, and pure SoP. -- Liliana • 21:57, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Delete, encyclopaedic. Equinox ◑ 22:07, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Ditto, delete. --Hekaheka 04:54, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Keep it is a very specific place. Like saying Upstate New York or the Florida Panhandle. It has merit etymologically because it has led to the creation of new words such as Norcal and Socal.Acdcrocks 06:34, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

In those entries you could write [[Northern]] [[California]]. Mglovesfun (talk) 06:41, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

It gets treated like its own state a lot of times on forms as does Southern California, this is a unique treatment not afforded to any other state in the nation.Acdcrocks 11:33, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I have added 6 citations showing it is commonly treated as a proper noun in books and print media.Acdcrocks 11:44, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Why isn't this a valid toponym under whatever rules and interpretations we have for toponyms? DCDuring TALK 13:13, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

So what does this prove? I'm sure you could find cites for Southern California, Western California, Eastern California, and stuff like Southern Florida, Western Wyoming, etc. as well. That doesn't make them any inclusible. -- Liliana • 13:16, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

@ DCDuring I think the rules we had on toponyms have since been deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

So any attestable toponym is includable, without limitation. Cool. That way we can have a really big entry count and provide lots of opportunities for transliteration and translation practice. With this success under our belts we should move on to further dismantling of CFI. DCDuring TALK 17:44, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Delete. Per nom.​—msh210℠ (talk) 01:39, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Keep. The quotations provided in the entry show that the term is used not only with lowercase "n" as "northern California" but also with capital "N" as "Northern California", all that in the middle of sentences and outside of titles, a significant lexicographical fact. The term does seem to border on being a semantic sum of parts, but then, whence the capitalization with "N"? --Dan Polansky 15:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

google books:"Western Wyoming" mostly finds "western Wyoming" with lowercase "w" in the middle of sentences and outside of titles, in a response to a post by Liliana from 12 October 2011. --Dan Polansky 15:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you proposing quantitative criteria for the relative frequency of capitalized and uncapitalized forms to justify in-/exclusion? All of "Upstate|Downstate|Eastern|Western|Northern|Central|Southeastern New York" (capitalized) can be found with sufficient diligence or patience at this bgc search. Perhaps some refer to administrative districts as they may have been defined from time to time. DCDuring TALK 18:35, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Weakish Keep. Northern California differs in demographics, geography, climate, and maybe even culture from Southern California and--more so than distinct portions of most any other US state--can be thought of (at least by some) as a separate entity. All of this is sometimes in the sense of the term. This means that this sense is a little more than SOP (sometimes). I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. · 15:37, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Strong delete, unless it can be proven that Northern California may be used to refer to something else than northern part of California. Generally a Northern Foo differs in many ways of Southern Foo, yet it is just Northern + Foo. --Hekaheka 16:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

If Northern California means the northern half of the state, then it is SoP. If it means something different and more specific (I have not read the entry), then it is no SoP. —Stephen ^(Talk) 16:49, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The term is somewhat ambiguous because there are different definitions applied. I have split the entry to reflect this. DAVilla 06:07, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

And I should add that this specificity may be sufficient to allow keeping the entry. DAVilla 01:03, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Also worth mentioning, it's not everything north of the Tehapachi pass, that is just the furthest south that people would consider to be Northern California, some people say its north of the Fresno/Monterey County lines (either north or south bounries), other yet consider north of the bay area, or north of Sacramento urgo just the literal northern half to be Northern California.Lucifer 22:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Delete SOP. — Ungoliant ^(Falai) 19:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

{{look}}

5 users (Liliana, Equinox, Hekaheka, msh210 and Ungoliant) vote delete, 3 users (Dan, DAVilla and some user with an obfuscated signature) vote keep. (The now-blocked creator of the entry also voted keep.) I vote delete. That makes for a 66% majority for deletion. - -sche (discuss) 21:42, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleted. - -sche (discuss) 02:30, 30 October 2012 (UTC)