User talk:Wipe

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Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:


I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to one of the discussion rooms or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Nadando 02:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your impersonal but very nice welcome template message. :) Wipe 19:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

dummy edit[edit]

Hi! Note that if you want the page to be updated, (cache purged), you don't need to change anything; edit/save will do nicely.

(you can also load URL: http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=page&action=purge for whatever "page" but that is more trouble ;-) Robert Ullmann 13:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, thanks, I just noticed it too. Furthermore, the cache seemed to be updated anyway, moving all pages that had {{childish}} to my newly created Category:Childish. Wipe 13:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

substantiivien taivutus[edit]

Voi olla, että muitakin mielipiteitä löytyy, mutta minusta on tarpeetonta (joskaan ei tietysti haitallistakaan) laittaa taivutuskaavaa kahteen kertaan, kuten huomasin sinun laittaneen artkkelissa levy, jossa on:

Noun -otsikon alla

{{fi-noun|levy|type=äly}}, ja

Declension -otsikon alla

{{fi-decl-valo|lev|||y|ä}}

Mielestäni taulukko on havainnollisempi, ja sitä kannattaa suosia, jolloin ensimmäisen määrityksen sijasta voi kirjoittaa yksinkertaisesti:

{{infl|fi|noun}} ,

jolloin se vain toistaa sivun nimen. --Hekaheka 22:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Niin, ja tervetuloa minunkin puolestani englanninkieliseen Wiktionaryyn. Hyvä saada tänne lisää suomalaisia. Suomen kieli on tällä hetkellä hyvin edustettuna, ja suomesta englantiin on selvästi enemmän käännöksiä kuin mistään muusta kielestä - viimeisimmän laskemisen mukaan (21.1.2009) 35.669. Saksa on toiseksi suurin, 26.845 käännöstä. Vanha kilpakumppani ruotsi on kaukana takana 13.922:lla käännöksellä. --Hekaheka 22:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, olen kyllä vähän ihmetellyt, miksi taivutus annetaan kaksi kertaa. Sanoisin, että sivuja, joihin taivutuslinkki osoittaa, voisi ehkä kehittää niin, että ne antaisivat taivutuskaavan lisäksi lisätietoa kyseisen taivutustyypin astevaihtelusta yms. Antavathan ne oikestaan nykyisinkin, koska niistä on linkki isoon koostetaulukkoon. Lisäksi nuo linkitetyt taivutuskaavasivut ovat tietyiltä osin parempia kuin Declensions-otsikona alla olevat taulukot: ne ovat värikkäitä ja niistä näkee selkeästi sanan vartalon rajakohdan. Niin kauan kuin taulukoissa on puutteita, mielestäni on parempi myös linkittää erillisiin sivuihin.
En varmaankaan tule lisäämään Wiktionaryyn kovin paljon sivuja tai käännöksiä, mutta toki, jos havaitsen puutteita, yritän korjata tilanteen. :-) Wipe 13:44, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sanottakoon, että nyt kun taulukkomallineet ovat kehittyneet, olen kallistunut myös sille kannalle, että {{infl|fi|noun}} olkoon toistaiseksi paras ratkaisu. Wipe 22:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template talk pages[edit]

The =Documentation= and =Discussion= headers on template talk pages always should be at L1. The "add new section" feature always creates a new section at L2. So, to be properly nested, L1 is used for the =Discussion= header. This is one of the few appropriate places for use of an L1 header. --EncycloPetey 19:34, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh thanks, I had no idea. Wipe 19:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

wp links[edit]

When adding the {{wikipedia}} template, please add it immediately under the language header, and not in other places within the entry. --EncycloPetey 15:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well that way it isn't clear which definition is meant. Wipe 18:35, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sydän[edit]

I'm new at Finnish, and I'm happy to learn that exeptions are few (in standard Finnish). It is hard to fix irregularities in a language, like "sydän." Some people have attempted to normalize English spelling, but it will never happen. Some irregular words in Finnish are among the most commonly used. Nature words are especially stubborn and conservative. Grammar sometimes proves to be insufficient. Things like future tense or gender neutral pronouns might be completely absent from the structure of the language and we have to use painfully awkward workarounds to convey meaning. English has this big problem with gendered pronouns; everything has to be either "he," "she" or "it." Unfortunately, not everyone has a known or specified gender. For example, if I don't know the gender of somebody's new baby, I have to say, "Oh, you finally had your baby! He/she is so cute, he/she has such beautiful blue eyes. Look how he/she is sleeping so peacefully, does he/she keep you up all night?" This too will never change. How does future tense work in Finnish? Heyzeuss 22:26, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi and welcome to the English Wiktionary. The Finnish future tense, which is frowned upon by language purists (teachers and the like) as incorrect grammar is formed by the (inflected) verb tulla and third infinitive illative (I just looked it up) of the main verb. For example, tulee tapahtumaan = is going to happen, or literally, "comes into happening". The third infinitive illative is formed with the suffix -maan or -mään. The future tense is used often and everyone understands it, although the present tense can be used as well, but then you often need to somehow indicate that it's the future you are talking about (and that is by far the most common way to express future things, not the future tense).
The gender neutral pronoun problem you are talking about is reversed when one translates from English to Finnish: the speaker can indicate the gender of the person who is being referred to by using he or she. The translator may then have to add some awkward word that indicates the gender or reformulate the complete sentence. By the way, I'm partial to using they instead of "he/she".
If you're serious about learning Finnish, I applaud your effort, because it's probably not the easiest language to master. ;) I'm curious to know how you as a learner see the division of the Finnish language into the standard form (kirjakieli or more properly yleiskieli) and the spoken form (puhekieli). The colloquial inflections are of course more important, unless you need to write something important. :) Wipe 00:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They works well when an individual is completely hypothetical. I'm sure they wouldn't object.
He/she works in abrevd txt, but not in long form. It's not politically correct anyway because "he" is leading. You can never say "he slash she" out loud, or everyone within earshot will throw things at you. Sometimes my wife actually says things like "dog slash cat," at which point I tic uncontrollably and threaten to move back in with my mother. In formal text you can use "she" as a gender neutral pronoun. The political correctness fascists will not complain, and the grammar police will turn a blind eye.
When I was an undergrad student, I would passive-agressively recast my sentences awkwardly just to protest against writing style rules. I would do things like restate the same noun again and again rather than substituting with a pronoun. I know now that I can just use "she." Some terms are useful in place of pronouns like "the person" or "such individual." I recommend saying "individual" a lot; it sounds very academic.
The language is hard, even for my Hungarian classmates. I'm not too disconcerted about colloquial Finnish because every language with a written form has a different spoken form. I have to learn standard Finnish first because I can only learn one dialect at a time. I am surprised that there are so many dialects within such a small population. Finland has many more dialects than the United States. I still don't have an ear for Finnish dialects, so I can't tell the difference between a Pohjanmaa juntti and a Turku metrosexual. Heyzeuss 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are right that English pretty much demands that you know the sex of someone before talking about them; hence the perennial question about a new baby... "is it a boy or a girl?" Here the "it" is not offensive and only needs to be used once. ;) Of course the English find it perfectly peculiar that languages have nouns that are either feminine or masculine (or neuter) and that is thankfully one thing that English people are grateful for when learning Finnish (and we have to be thankful for that given the complexities elsewhere).
If I may, I'd like to comment about the puhekieli/yleiskieli issue. For me, this is a real issue! I have learnt everything I know from books and dictionaries and from reading the quality press and official web sites like yle.fi hs.fi and so on. The language described there is completely different from the language you hear on the street. For me it is a big big problem because there is no official source for the different forms of words used in puhekieli and for the kinds of contractions that happen. For example, in school you are told that all finnish sentences that are formed as questions will have either a question word or a -ko/-kö suffix. Then on the street a friend might say to you "tulet sä takaisin?" which of course is a question but has neither a question word or the suffix because the suffix is compressed out. Tuletko sinä takaisin? is compressed down to Tuletsä takaisin. Only familiarity teaches you these things, though the language schools and books on the subject should, but often don't mention it. Try visiting a internet chat room such as you might find at www.suomi24.fi for example and there you will see lots of examples of people typing in puhekieli which no dictionary or grammar book will enable you to decipher.--80.221.149.137 05:20, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


User:Wipe/Missing[edit]

I should think so – know only too well – lay it on a bit thick – plebiscitary – pomp and circumstance – pull out all stops – right out (see: straight out) – self-realisation (see: self-realization) – subtilization – tear-jerking – top and tail
case in point - histrionic - to the hilt - topsy-turvy - wait on hand and foot - maté

yerba maté needs to be added. histrionical is the same as histrionic with some ornamentation. british english has more ornamentation than american. to the hilt is preceded by multilpe different words, like: packed or armed. hilt is often substituted with teeth or gills. as in armed to the teeth or packed to the gills. wait on hand and foot is often more formally stated wait upon hand and foot. Heyzeuss 18:03, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Wipe 19:05, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
you're welcome ☺.
more terms
to add: wait upon hand and foot - stuffed to the gills
already entered: for keeps - to the gills
do you mind if i add (not remove) terms right into your list? heyzeuss 07:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome to add things in it. I've noticed that some other people keep similar lists. I guess I'll remove "play for keeps" since it's play + for keeps. But it would still be useful. Wipe 14:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
a note: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-toa2.htm.
i could not find to a T either. i tried looking for to the tee and nothing showed up. maybe it needs a redirect, an alternate spelling, or a common mispelling of.

Great, I see you made many of the articles on the list. I just hope that the expressions were formed correctly. :) I seem to have a tendency to add expressions that are merely sums of their parts to the list. Wipe 01:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

no problem. i'm starting to learn the way idioms are entered into the dictionary. they are usually given in their short form, and one is used as an indefinite gender-free pronoun. ~ heyzeuss 13:36, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish Idioms[edit]

Either is fine. Täysi seems more informal. You would normally say something like "Kiitos, mut mä oon ihan täys" (or "täynnä"). I don't know if it would be more polite, but you could also say "Kiitos, (mut) mä tulin (jo) (ihan) täyteen", as if to say that you got full while eating there and wasn't previously. ;) Wipe 17:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
thx :) ~ heyzeuss 19:18, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Toponyms[edit]

Espoon or Espooseen? ~ heyzeuss 19:18, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Espoon is the genitive and Espooseen is the illative (to Espoo). The porblem with place names in Finland is that you have to learn individually which set of locative cases should be used. It could be either Espooseen or Espoolle (the latter means only "for Espoo", but probably would be understood as "to Espoo" too). As an added bonus, some places have a slightly irregular inflection. For example, "to Kauniainen" is Kauniaisiin. Most (?) other place names ending in -inen have this plural inflection. Wipe 21:43, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. :) That's a challenge all by itself. Most places with -järvi, -joki or some other water feature in the name are places where you go on. Some are places where you go in. Maybe I'll put together a list someday.
btw I started Wiktionary:About Finnish. ~ heyzeuss 16:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish etymology[edit]

Hello, do you perhaps have anything to contribute with to this discussion? Thanks! --Lundgren8 (t · c) 16:05, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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