Module talk:vi-pron

gia tộc

@Wyang Is IPA produced correct? E.g. /z̻aː˧˧ tɜwʔk͡p̚˧ˀ˨ʔ/ looks wrong. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Which part of the IPA looks incorrect? Wyang (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake. It's a great module! I was confused by k͡p̚. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Wyang are you sure all three dialects have double articulation for -c, -ng, etc.? I though that's just a Hanoian feature. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:29, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

That's what I heard in Saigon Vietnamese. Please also see: Thompson, "Saigon Phonemics", Language, Vol. 35, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1959), pp. 460 -

/ŋ/ Dorsal (mediovelar) nasals.

Final after /u w/: [ŋ] with simultaneous labial closure.

Final after /o/: [ŋ] with simultaneous labial closure (more common), in free variation with [ŋ] strongly labialized.

Final after /ɔ/: [ŋ] weakly labialized.

Elsewhere (i.e. initial and final except after /u w o ɔ/): [ŋ].

Wyang (talk) 11:16, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

@Wyang I'm not really seeing a match when it comes to the tones in Southern Vietnamese ̣(TPHCM). Why are flat/level tones for North transcribed as high-rising tones for HCMC? 129.186.251.92 17:13, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

@129.186.251.92 Sorry! I missed this message. Indeed it should be mid-level. Wyang (talk) 09:08, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Ix-ra-en - Lua error in Module:vi-pron at line 389: Unrecognised final: "ix"

@Wyang, Fumiko Take

Hi,

How should "ix" be pronounced? Could you add it to the module, please? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:31, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I-xra-en? Wyang (talk) 12:38, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I thought so too. Not sure if [1] is official. "I-xra-en" is attestable, thanks, I'll use it instead. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:41, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

[r]

I edited the module according to how the [r] often pronounced in the Sài Gòn dialect (/ɹ/). Also in recent loanwords (from English or French), [r] is all /ɹ/ or /ɾ/ (according to speakers) in all varieties and all situations.PhanAnh123 (talk) 11:44, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Ă and Â

I decided to change all the /ɐ/ to /a/ and all the /ɜ/ to /ə/, as this is a the most common way of phonetic transliteration made by linguists and also presents in other Wiktionary.PhanAnh123 (talk) 08:33, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@PhanAnh123 Thanks. Wyang (talk) 09:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Quốc

There're a problem with the IPA transcription of quốc in Southern Vietnamese, which should be [wək̚], not [uək̚].PhanAnh123 (talk) 07:09, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Also I don't think [kh] is dropped before /w/ in Southern Vietnamese. Most of the times, only in /kw/ and /hw/ that the initial consonants are dropped.PhanAnh123 (talk) 07:24, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, both should be fixed. Wyang (talk) 07:31, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Hỏi tone

This module consistently gives the hỏi tone huyền-like tone modifiers for the Hanoi dialect, as in mở [məː˧˩]. This strikes me as obviously wrong, unless I'm misreading the tone modifiers. Anyone know what the correct modifiers would be? Would it be [˧˩˦], similar to the Saigon dialect? – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 19:41, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

{{vi-pron|hn=-}} diaplays nothing

{{attn|vi}} --沈澄心✉ 11:51, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Fixed. --沈澄心✉ 12:36, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@沈澄心: These changes are causing "1" to be appended to every transclusion of {{vi-IPA}}. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 00:47, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Fixed —Fish bowl (talk) 00:52, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Southern final /n/

Fumiko Take has been removing pronunciations from foreign loans ending in -n and replacing them with a usage note saying the final -n is pronounced /n/ rather than /ŋ/ in the south, f.ex. diff. If this is indeed a thing (@PhanAnh123, Mxn?) could the template be modified to indicate this? Better have full and correct information than just a lousy usage note. MuDavid 栘𩿠 (talk) 07:20, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

If a word is clearly foreign origin from an European language, speakers might make some effort to pronounce it with final [n] instead of [ŋ]. Although I think it's far too inconsistent even within one speaker (they might have [n] for foreign /n/ in one sentence, but [ŋ] the next) to generalize too much here. It's similar to the initial rhotic in foregin words for speakers of the inland Northern dialects where it's not a phoneme, it's inconsistent. PhanAnh123 (talk) 08:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I imagine it won’t be particularly consistent. But we do show the initial rhotic in our Northern pronunciations; should we show Southern final /n/ as well then? MuDavid 栘𩿠 (talk) 01:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Recent change

@Benwing2: It looks like your recent edit broke something, because Category:IPA pronunciations with invalid IPA characters is now flooded with Vietnamese entries. Could you take a look, please? —Mahāgaja · talk 09:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja This is because of invalid IPA (specifically brackets) coming from inserting multiple pronunciations into a single pronunciation argument. Formerly the IPA was manually generated. I will fix this in a the next day or so. Benwing2 (talk) 03:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mahagaja Should be fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 07:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)