Talk:American Dialect Society

Note: created entry

Created entry, modeled after other proper nouns for organizations located in category, Category:en:Organizations. Referenced, and sourced with six (6) quoted citations. -- Cirt (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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American Dialect Society

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete all through #Royal Navy. DCDuring TALK 12:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete all through #Royal Navy as per DCDuring. I am against having entries for specific organisations that are not generic terms for anything (like Amtrak, which is under discussion, and Greenpeace, which oddly passed). Equinox ◑ 12:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

We could convert the ones listed below to level 3 headers. I elected not to nominate any of the single word ones, as they would be less likely to get deleted per WT:CFI line 1. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete all though #Royal Navy. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 15:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep, see for example Dictionary.com, but I'll of course take this as a good learning opportunity and defer to community consensus here. ;) Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 15:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

  Note that CIA is included in dictionaries because it is an abbreviation. Central Intelligence Agency is rather unlikely to be a dictionary headword, or to be defined beyond the expansion of the abbreviation. Equinox ◑ 15:23, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you for the education about all this! I've added the entry above, to ADS. :) Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 15:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

 Delete Listing every word in every language is a lofty enough task, without also trying to list every corporation and organization on earth too (or even just ones with abbreviations). I'm not sure where we should draw the line, but I'm pretty sure American Dialect Society isn't on the right side of it. Sorry you put so much work into a doomed entry, Cirt. ~ Robin 21:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey, no worries, it's been a good educational experience for me! ;) -- Cirt (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

@Cirt and Equinox, that's why I haven't nominated FBI and CIA. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:47, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, quite right, thanks for pointing that out! :) -- Cirt (talk) 10:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

@Robin: We do not need to forbid groups of terms only because there are many of them, and because we want to redirect human resources to other groups of words. Geographic names are numerous, yet most of attestable ones are likely to be included, judging from Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2010-05/Placenames with linguistic information 2 and Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-02/Remove_"Place_names"_section_of_WT:CFI. --Dan Polansky 08:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep all. We have no criteria for keeping or deleting names of organizations, and I would expect at least some of these to appear in a dictionary. --EncycloPetey 22:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

•  Keep. I vote for keep all, not because I am certain all need to be kept, but rather because no-one has presented anything like plausible justification of deletion. The justification "Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language" is plain wrong to me, as single-word names of organizations are words ("Greenpeace"), just like single-word geographic names ("London"). Furthermore, most of the names are present in at least two dictionaries in OneLook. As regards CFI, it is silent on whether these names should be included. Moreover, the way in which "Ku Klux Klan" was made part of this summary RFD suggests to me that neither the nominator nor many of the supporters of deletion have considered these terms on their lexicographical merit. --Dan Polansky 08:24, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

  For ease of reference: “American Dialect Society”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Central Intelligence Agency”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Federal Bureau of Investigation”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Ku Klux Klan”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Marine Corps”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “National Police Agency”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Red Crescent”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Red Cross”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Royal Navy”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.. --Dan Polansky 08:41, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete all except Ku Klux Klan, about which I'm not sure (leaning toward "keep") because of what bd2412 says, below. We're not a directory of organizations.​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:19, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Central Intelligence Agency

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Federal Bureau of Investigation

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Ku Klux Klan

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep this one, as the term is coined as a whole. It is clearly not SOP, two of the parts having no individual meaning (and the third being at best a bastardization of a regular word). bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep as a set phrase, not idiomatic.--Dmol 03:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

•  Keep: this term has non-compositional (non-sum-of-parts) pronunciation: the user of the dictionary cannot derive the pronunciation of the term from the pronunciation provided at the entries for the component word-like parts "Ku", "Klux" and "Klan", unless we create entries for "Ku" and "Klux". So basically per BD2412. For lemmings AKA other dictionaries, see “Ku Klux Klan”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., in which AHD, Collins, Macmillan, Online Etymology Dictionary, and MWO have an entry. --Dan Polansky 08:13, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

kept -- Liliana • 16:26, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Marine Corps

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep, idiomatic because the "corps" in this case is the entire branch of a nation's military, rather than a sub-unit as with an Army corps. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

kept per no consensus -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

National Police Agency

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Red Crescent

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep, unintuitive non-SOP. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep per bd2412. --Dmol 03:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

kept -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Red Cross

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep, unintuitive non-SOP. bd2412 T 21:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep per bd2412. --Dmol 03:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

kept -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Royal Navy

Name of an organization, not a word or an idiom in a language. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep, it specifically means the UK navy when used in English. It's not obvious which Royal is being referred to. (Not withstanding the fact that our entry for Royal doesn't have a suitable entry for the British royal family. I'll add it.)--Dmol 03:16, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

kept Royal Navy always means the British Royal Navy specifically, not any of the other ones like the Australian Royal Navy etc. -- Liliana • 06:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Citations page

Thank you for retaining this discussion page and its history, as well as the research at the citations page, Citations:American Dialect Society. Much appreciated, -- Cirt (talk) 01:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)