Talk:ericaceous

RFV discussion: April–May 2018

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ericaceous

Rfv-senses: 2 definitions"

1. (especially of a plant) Acid-loving, thriving in acidic conditions.
2. acidic, acid-based

The other sense is the only one that other OneLook dictionaries have, something like "belonging to or having the characteristics of heaths (Ericaceae)".

I would think that "acid-loving" and, possibly, "acidic" are characteristics of Ericaceae, but it seems impossible that one could have, say, ericaceous Ilex/holly, without referring to more similar characteristics than those related to acidity. DCDuring (talk) 21:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

It's really common in gardening to talk about 'ericaceous plants', such as camellias, blueberries, rhododendrons and so on. For the second sense, I might have worded it badly but I meant, for example, 'ericaceous compost' for those plants. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 22:17, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

cited Kiwima (talk) 22:28, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

That was quick! I'm thinking...UK English 🤔? Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 22:54, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

On reflection, although the sense about compost and soil does seem to be distinct and verified, I suppose DCDuring's point still stands. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 23:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Actually, it doesn't because some plants that can be described as 'ericaceous' meaning 'acid loving' don't belong to that family. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 00:58, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Pieris, Rhododendron, Erica (heath), and Vaccinium (blueberry) are all in family Ericaceae; Camellia (Theaceae) is in order Ericales. Thus at least some of the citations are consistent with the definition that other dictionaries limit their entry to. Perhaps we should add something like "or appropriate/used for" (heaths (Ericaceae)) to the first definition. DCDuring (talk) 15:31, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

How other dictionaries define the term:

of, relating to, or being a heath or the heath family (MW)

Relating to or denoting plants of the heather family (Ericaceae). Oxford

of, relating to, or belonging to the Ericaceae, (Collins)

of the heath family of plants (WNW)

belonging to the Ericaceae, the heath family of plants. (RHU)

The first three have wording that, IMO, incorporates the "acid-loving" and "acidic" usage without confusing users by apparently allowing for use of ericaceous outside of its narrow actual range of usage.

Also, see w:Ericaceous fertilizer.

If we keep all three definitions, the "acid-loving" and "acidic" definitions need to have the context of use made explicitly narrow. If we go to a single definition the usage examples should incorporate ericaceous fertilizer and ericaceous plants referring to some plant outside the Ericaceae family, like holly, hydrangea, dogwood (none in Ericales). DCDuring (talk) 16:33, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't believe that all the cites support the definitions, but I see that usage consistent with challenged definitions can be found. There are now usage examples for the challenged senses too. DCDuring (talk) 16:53, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

I deliberately chose cites that included the wording of the definition in parentheses following use of the word -- how can you say they don't support the definition? Kiwima (talk) 06:39, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 05:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)