Talk:ground meat

RFD discussion: March–July 2023

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ground meat

SOP with best definition ever: Any meat that has been ground. *sigh* Van Man Fan (talk) 15:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

For the record when @Hekaheka created this their justification was "This is potentially SOP, but 1) ground meat is essential everyday term and it's good to have the translations somewhere and 2) it's not any worse than "ground beef" which we have since 2006". (Though the translations were removed as redundant to mince in 2021.) —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 15:23, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

I think this is mainly an American term for minced meat. DonnanZ (talk) 17:23, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

It is like an industrial product with certain target properties, so not SOP. Editors just struggle to define words in a way that points out those typical properties that distinguish a term from an SOP one, as they are low-level, and it will depend upon it whether one suffers an RFD. If you are not that into details, there are lot of terms that can be crudely broken down into their parts, and it needs attention to detail to adhere to WT:FRIED. Fay Freak (talk) 18:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Surely this passes the ‘in hospital’ test as the American form of minced meat or mincemeat (in fact mince meat and mince-meat are attestable and could be created as variant forms). —Overlordnat1 (talk) 19:11, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

I updated the definition from the rather circular "Any meat which has been ground" to "Any meat that has been finely chopped, often with a meatgrinder". I also added a (US) label. Is this only a US thing, or are we aware of this term in any other countries? I think this should definitely bekept per WT:FRIED. – Guitarmankev1 ^(talk) 19:37, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Even meat grinder has a synonym: mincer. DonnanZ (talk) 20:38, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

With Guitarmankev's redefinition, weak keep as a case of WT:FRIED. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 12:42, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

By all means if it makes Wiktionary better. But, note that ground beef's definition isn't too different: "beef that has been ground". We also have such beauties as fried egg and boiled egg.--Hekaheka (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

In my experience, any meat can have a collocation with "ground": "ground turkey", "ground pork", "ground mutton", "ground buffalo", "ground squab", etc. Here is a quote that demonstrates this:

Recently my wife had trouble understanding someone who was talking about ground squirrels. She thought the topic was some exotic kind of burger meat. Looking in the Oxford English Dictionary, Ethel learned that a ground squirrel is a terrestrial squirrel-like rodent...

I've also seen it for various cuts of meat: "ground chuck", "ground round", "ground sirloin", even "ground filet mignon". I would say that it has more to do with the fact that meat is customarily ground with a meat grinder, giving a product with a specific appearance and texture regardless of what the item fed into it was like. This has led to jokes by generations of US kids about what exactly went into the meatloaf in the school cafeteria, but I digress... Chuck Entz (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

The case for ground beef is fairly weak as it's the same as beef mince which we don't have (and nor do we have either ground lamb or lamb mince) but I still think the more generic ground meat should be kept as an equivalent to mince. --Overlordnat1 (talk) 03:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, keep. There is, as illustrated by ground squirrel, possible confusion between ground (surface of the earth) and to grind/ground. DonnanZ (talk) 09:25, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

The same argument would appear to apply even more strongly to ground mushroom,^[1] but it is IMO hardly a valid argument for its inclusion.  --Lambiam 11:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

If you don't like that argument, there is always the WT:FRIED argument. It would be an irony to delete a US term and keep the British one. DonnanZ (talk) 15:39, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

In that case ("chopped and ground mushroom") the inferred meaning of "ground" depends entirely on the semantic context so it doesn't meet the FRIED criterion. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 16:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

For me as a foreigner it is important to understand the meaning of this phrase, even if it consists of two understandable words (they have many meanings themselves). Yaroslav Nikitenko (talk) 11:58, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

• Keep, per WT:FRIED and WT:HOSPITAL. Ƿidsiþ 06:54, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
• Keep, per above. Just realised I havent officially voted yet despite clearly supporting 'keep' in the earlier comments. --Overlordnat1 (talk) 01:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Kept per consensus. PUC – 12:37, 9 July 2023 (UTC)