User talk:Hekaheka

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I have archived some of the older discussions here:

User_talk:Hekaheka/Archive (25 Dec 2006 through 8 Dec 2011)
User_talk:Hekaheka/Archive_2011_2014
User-talk:Hekaheka/Archive_2015_2017


tykkilumi[edit]

@ tykkilumi you added this with the definition "cannon-made snow". In English this means nothing because cannons fire ammunition not snow. So I interpreted this as meaning "artificial snow" shot cannon-like from a machine to the place where it is needed. But this news item (https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10000701) implies that tykkylumi came naturally and not from a cannon. In English this would just be called "heavy snowfall" (when a lot of snow falls in a very short space of time). I have no user account and I am not Finnish so if my interpretation is correct, could you please modify the english definition. Thanks.

Tykkylumi
See Wikipedia article "Snowmaking" to see what I meant with snow cannon. Tykkilumi and tykkylumi are different things. The former is artificial snow produced with a snow gun a.k.a. snow cannon, the latter is a result of a natural phenomenon in which (see Crown snow-load) droplets of fog or low level cloud (Stratus) freeze on the windward (wind-facing) side of tree branches, buildings, or any other solid objects.--Hekaheka (talk) 19:30, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
PS. Thanks for the notification. --Hekaheka (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Wow, that is one subtle difference between the words! —Rua (mew) 22:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Also a snow cannon is a thing in English too. —Rua (mew) 22:28, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Sorry. I am an idiot for not noticing that the word in the YLE news item began TYKKY... but the word that I clicked on when I started punching it into the wiktionary search field was TYKKILUMI. I must try harder... Kind regard Anonymous IP user.
As Rua mentioned, it's a subtle difference and it's very easy to get confused. I'd say that your question led to the creation of the entry tykkylumi and improvement of at least two others (tykky and tykkilumi), which makes it a good question. --Hekaheka (talk) 01:21, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

käydä / käypä[edit]

I did not make good enough bookmarks when I made the edits. I came to the understanding that the foot related verb käydä originally meant stepping a single step, from where the frequentative derivative kävellä was derived from. Therefore, and considering -pa#Etymology_2, käypä would be an archaic version of käyvä, with the meaning 'one who makes a single step'. It might be that I induced the käydä=astua relation from the established understanding that kävellä is a frequentative aspect of käydä. Or I might have read it from somewhere. --Liedes (talk) 20:09, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems that the only established meaning (by Wiktionary) for *käüdäk is to walk. I wonder why the frequentative aspect kävellä has developed then. Does that not mean 'astellaella'? --Liedes (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
@Liedes When I made my comment of "käypä" not being an alternative form of "käyvä" I was thinking of current usage. In current Finnish they have a different connotation. For example the statements hän on kuntosalilla käypä kaveri/hän on kuntosalilla käyvä kaveri do not mean the same. In Wiktionary, unless specifically labeled "obsolete", "archaic" or "dated", we try to describe the contemporary language, and any history belongs to the Etymology or sometimes Usage notes sections. With "Alternative term" we mean something that is totally interchangeable, e.g. tämänhetkinen vs. tämän hetkinen. One should always remember also that this is an English Wiktionary. Anything we write should be comprehensible even for those who don't speak a word of Finnish.
Please read carefully WT:ELE, if you already didn't. Also following Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion and Wiktionary:Requests_for_verification help to gain understanding of what is preferred and what is not. --Hekaheka (talk) 09:51, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
About käydä. I have always understood that it is roughly the same as kävellä. E.g. Ota vuoteesi ja käy. (Bible) or Tietä käyden tien on vanki, vapaa on vain umpihanki. (Hellaakoski). Why kävellä developed, I don't know. Perhaps to differentiate from the numerous other meanings of käydä, such as ferment, visit and suit. --Hekaheka (talk) 09:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
On käypä, you are probably looking for the term doublet, sense #3 (which we probably ought to have in Appendix:Glossary). --Tropylium (talk) 17:59, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Ps. kävellä probably started off as a entirely regular frequentative 'to walk about'. You can still see this e.g. in how olla kävelyllä means "to be on a walk (for leisure)" = "to be walking about", not the more general "to be walking (from any place to any other place)". It might have mostly ousted käydä from the sense "to walk" since the base verb has developed also various other senses such as "to visit", "to be suitable". --Tropylium (talk) 18:04, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

intubate[edit]

Do we not capitalise and add full-stops to all English definitions? ---> Tooironic (talk) 04:12, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Why do you ask me? I just added the Finnish translation. I see all sorts of combinations in English entries: cap-dot, nocap-dot, cap-nodot and nocap-nodot - even within a single entry. --Hekaheka (talk) 06:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Oh, no! It seems that I actually did remove the caps and dots - something that I would not do intentionally. I must have thought that I was editing the header of a translation table. --Hekaheka (talk) 08:43, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Cheers. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

szarvas[edit]

Hi, the taboo comment was referring to an old superstition that certain animals were not called be their actual name but something else. I'm not sure what the correct English phrase is, but in literal translation from Hungarian it is "name taboo". --Panda10 (talk) 19:52, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

@Panda10 OK, we'll find a way to say it in a way which conveys information also to non-Hungarians. Does sarvaz refer to any horned animal, or to a specific one, or even to an imaginary one such as unicorn? I assume that sarvaz is the name used instead of the actual name - is that correct? --Hekaheka (talk) 21:18, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
It was shortened from szarvas állat (horned animal) where the adjective szarvas (horned, with a horn) became a noun and as such, today it specifically means deer. The formation was probably influenced by name taboo, a belief that means the name of dangerous or respected beings should not be uttered, only circumscribed. This name taboo created similar paraphrase in other animal names, for example farkas (wolf) was originally farkas állat (tailed animal, animal with a tail). Would this explanation work better? --Panda10 (talk) 22:16, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
@Panda10 "Euphemism" maybe. DTLHS (talk) 22:26, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
@DTLHS But does euphemism imply fear? --Panda10 (talk) 22:29, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
It doesn't imply fear, but euphemism can occur because of fear. DTLHS (talk) 22:39, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
I divided the entry into two etymologies, one for the adjective sense and the other for the noun, adding Panda10's explanation to the noun section. Feel free to edit. --Hekaheka (talk) 23:02, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
I made a small change, removing "of deer". Thanks for your help! --Panda10 (talk) 00:58, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

eittää[edit]

Esiintyy kyllä mun kielenkäytössäni, joskin defektiivisenä: vain infinitiivi / 3. persoonan eittää ("turha eittää mitään", "mitä se nyt eittää"), sen sijaan tosiaan ei 1. / 2. persoonan finiittimuotoja ˣeitän, ˣeität jne. Google löytää nettisanakirjoja joissa tälle on annettu ihan täydellinenkin taivutus, sekä jonkun usealle taholle mirroroidun foorumikyselyn jossa joku haluaa tietää mitä tämä verbi merkitsee; näiden lisäksi lähinnä kirjoitusvirheitä verbeistä esittää, peittää, heittää. Mutta myös pari selvää vanhaa attestaatiota löytyy: [1] (1859), [2] (1911), [3] (1920). Uudempi: vihjeenä ristisanassa (vaaka 13).

SSA tuntee tästä kuitenkin vain yhden vanhan kirjasuomen attestaation ja SMS ei mitään, joten näyttäisi aika lailla siltä, että nykykäytössä ja ehkä noissa vanhemmissakin tapauksissa on kyse paikallisesta takaperoisjohdoksesta noista laajemmin tunnetuista tapauksista eittämätön ja eittämättä. --Tropylium (talk) 11:26, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

koskikara[edit]

This has a declension but also says to "see kara". DTLHS (talk) 22:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Fixed. Seems that Heyzeuss forgot to remove "see Kara" when they added the declension table. --Hekaheka (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

scroll/talla[edit]

Hello, I was just looking at the translations at nut (of a musical instrument) and I noticed that 'talla' is given as the Finnish translation for 'nut' but that 'talla' is translated as 'bridge' on its own page. I am aware that there is some overlap with these terms in some languages so I was wondering if you know if that is the case, or if something needs changing. And if you don't want to bother with it, I can contact a Finnish musician or violin maker to be 100% certain. Thanks for any help. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 12:56, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@Kaixinguo~enwiktionary "Nut" would seem to be yläsatula in Finnish [4]. --Hekaheka (talk) 13:27, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

teline hyper or hypo?[edit]

Hello, looks like you were the person who made the edit to add "hypnyms" (diff) to teline. I updated to "hypernyms" and then realized that I had no idea if that was a typo for hyponyms or hypernyms. Can you take a look? Thanks. - TheDaveRoss 20:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC) @TheDaveRoss It was meant to be "hyponyms". Thank you for asking. --Hekaheka (talk) 05:18, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

What is SOP for t:fi and what isn't[edit]

Just my 2¢'s, but I've noticed you applying extra [[ ]]'s for some {{t}} entries in Finnish to signify that the words form a non-idiomatic sum of parts. I've done much of the same, but I feel that sometimes it ends up being too strict. For instance on golden spiral, the translation you added was [[kultainen]] [[spiraali]], but [[kultainen spiraali]] is better, since it's not idiomatic - the word isn't literally referring to a spiral-shaped object made out of gold here.

In short, if the combination of words represents an idiomatic concept on its own, it shouldn't be separated but instead kept as a single multi-word idiomatic expression. This is what WT:CFI is talking about; excluding entries for multi-word expressions that are not idiomatic. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 15:39, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

True. "Kultainen spiraali" would merit an entry of its own. The reason I made it two links instad of one, is probably a combination of these circumstances: 1) I didn't have the energy to create "kultainen spiraali" at the moment and I thought "kultainen" "spiraali" is more informative than a red link; 2) "kultainen spiraali" seems to translate word-by-word into most languages and 3) if someone would later feel that an entry for "kultainen spiraali" is necessary and justified, he or she is free to create it and remove the square brackets. Thus, if you want to "raise" an SOP-translation into full entry status, feel free to do so. --Hekaheka (talk) 17:56, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

hirvikoira[edit]

What is a "taxhound"? DTLHS (talk) 22:25, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

It's an error. Should read "dachshund". --Hekaheka (talk) 04:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

binaarinen vs binäärinen[edit]

What do you think about switching the two such that binaarinen is the alt form and binäärinen is the main one, and then doing the same for all derived terms? The latter forms with ä seem considerably more common. Naturally we would also have to alter the etymology section somehow. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 20:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

I did this now, since the forms with ää are considerably more common than the forms with aa. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 13:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Hmm. Kielitoimiston sanakirja [5] appears to have another opinion. Perhaps we should treat them as equal. --Hekaheka (talk) 10:21, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
I would almost compare it to the pizza-pitsa case regarding how much they end up actually being used. I cannot find a single written source apart from them that would prefer binaari over binääri. HS and YLE all use binääri in modern articles. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 10:31, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
I must be a fossil. I would personally prefer "binaarinen". --Hekaheka (talk) 10:34, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
Tieteen termipankki has binaarinen [6] but not binäärinen. I got 13,400 hits for a simple Google search for binaarinen and 18,300 for binäärinen. I would not call this an overwhelming victory. --Hekaheka (talk) 10:36, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
With the adjectival form, the difference comes across as a lot less pronounced than it actually is. binaariluku 851, binääriluku 4140; binaarinumero 385, binäärinumero 261 (the exception!); binaarijärjestelmä 737, binäärijärjestelmä 2,530. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 10:40, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
We'd perhaps expect binaari- to be more common, but I think this is widely getting analogical -ää- from primääri-, sekundääri-, tertiääri-, kvartääri-. --Tropylium (talk) 20:22, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Finnish suffix -ti[edit]

The entry says "acting without poa". What is poa? Equinox 18:35, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Huh, sorry, I have no idea what that's about; it looks like I saved before I was done writing that line. --Tropylium (talk) 19:44, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Automatic hyphenation[edit]

I'm currently writing a module that could be used to automatically create hyphenations for Finnish words, and it can (at the time of writing) be found here: Module:User:Surjection/fi-hyphenation. It is primarily the test cases that probably need a few more to test the functionality. Do you know any good source for those, or if not, do you have any ideas on tests that could be added? SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 19:57, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm afraid I cannot help in this one. One method might be to think of the puns (sanaleikki) you remember. Also the comic strip Fingerpori might produce good test cases. --Hekaheka (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

tuo[edit]

The declension table for tuo is missing the superessive and delative forms. Maybe they were left out because they're identical with the adessive and ablative. Still, they should be considered separate forms. Or what do you think? Yuhani (talk) 16:47, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm not so much an expert in grammar, but I guess they should, in analogy with tämä. --Hekaheka (talk) 12:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Opinnot vs. opiskelu[edit]

Sometimes opiskelu is translated as course of study. Course of study is sometimes a synonym for studies, as in, "I will resume my studies next fall." You could use either term in that sentence. Opinnot seems to usually be a prefix, as in opinto-. Wikisanakirja defines opiskelu as opintojen harjoittaminen. I don't really know how to use the word when it is not a prefix. How would you use opinnot in a sentence? ~ heyzeuss 16:12, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Kotus's web dictionary[7] only lists the word in the plural form:
opinnot opiskelu jssak (ylemmässä) oppilaitoksessa t. jllak erityisalalla (studies in a [higher] learning institution or on some specific field). Akateemiset opinnot. Lääkärin opinnot myös →←. Suomen kielen, fysiikan opinnot. Kieli-, musiikkiopinnot. Kouluopinnot. Ammattiopinnot. Jatko-opinnot. Harjoittaa opintoja. Päättää opintonsa. Opinnot ovat kesken.
I edited our entry for opinto accordingly. Perhaps the content should be moved to opinnot and opinto be left as a redirect page. --Hekaheka (talk) 17:14, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

The word "usex"[edit]

Hi! I see that you have used the word "usex" within a few entries (e.g. "see usex above"). Since it's Wiktionary slang and not a normal English word, it is probably better to write "usage example". (Someone posted today that they didn't know what the word meant.) Equinox 15:42, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Got it! --Hekaheka (talk) 17:05, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

fake news[edit]

(there isn't an #English section—only #Danish —Suzukaze-c 06:12, 21 December 2018 (UTC))

  • Thanks, I'll add one. --Hekaheka (talk) 06:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
    • It had gone through RFD -> reverted my edits. Thanks for giving notice. --Hekaheka (talk) 06:33, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Non-physical abuse[edit]

The word abuse can be used in a wide range, and does not necessarily mean physical abuse. For example, playing Christmas music in a department store during the month of November might be considered customer abuse. How would you translate customer abuse?To what extent can the word pahoinpitely be used to mean abuse? ~ heyzeuss 13:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

asiakkaiden kiusaaminen? --Hekaheka (talk) 19:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Here's an example of a different use of the concept "customer abuse": "The vast majority (87%) of fast-food workers have experienced customer abuse, and the problem doesn't seem to be getting much better." This might be translated as "asiakkaiden huono käytös". --Hekaheka (talk) 19:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
"Pahoinpitely" almost always refers to physical abuse. --Hekaheka (talk) 19:26, 18 January 2019 (UTC)