Talk:mąʼii bikʼiizgi hadzíjiní

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Latest comment: 4 years ago by Metaknowledge in topic RFV discussion: March–May 2020
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RFV discussion: March–May 2020

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Nowhere but Wiktionary and places which quote it. Appears to be a Wikipedia innovation. Reasoning also for practically everything in Category:nv:Canids with the exception of mąʼii, mąʼii łitsooí and mąʼiitsoh. --Corsicanwarrah (talk) 09:04, 18 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

Keep anyway because there's not much Navajo content online in the first place and Stephen G. Brown is our resident expert on Navajo. —Suzukaze-c 06:10, 29 March 2020 (UTC)Reply
Yes, I'm aware Navajo is an LDL, but we still need at least once cite from a reliable dictionary to be a consensus for keeping. --Corsicanwarrah (talk) 09:38, 29 March 2020 (UTC)Reply
Per WT:LDL, the citation doesn't have to be from a dictionary. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 03:39, 30 March 2020 (UTC)Reply
FWIW, Navajo speakers apparently often adopt a descriptive approach to importing terms that have not previously been part of the lexicon. This particular term, mąʼii bikʼiizgi hadzíjiní, parses out to mąʼii (coyote) + bi- (third-person possessive prefix) + kʼiiz (side (of the body)) + -gi (at, on, locative suffix) + hadzíjiní (the one that is striped? smeared? from end to end). Various wild canids or canid-like animals are described in Navajo as variants of mąʼii (coyote), such as mąʼiitsoh (wolf, literally coyote + big) or mąʼii łitsooí (fox, literally coyote + it is yellow) or tábąąh mąʼii (racoon, literally shore + coyote). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 04:43, 31 March 2020 (UTC)Reply
I am uncertain how to evaluate Metaknowledge's claim that Stephen would invent neologisms. If a given Navajo term is in use at the Navajo Wikipedia, that would seem to be evidence of a term's existence outside of Stephen's own personal lexicon, would it not?
I fully understand that Wikipedia sites in general are not usable for meeting WT:CFI; however, for LDLs like Navajo, that language's Wikipedia might be the only online presence for much of that language's vocabulary in general.
Moreover, of the few editors involved in this RFV, I appear to be the only one with any functional knowledge of the language in question. This does not seem right. Those of us who have not studied a language in depth are much less likely to know where to go to find citations in dead-tree format -- and very little of the world is actually on the internet.
I am deeply uneasy about this removal.
‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:55, 28 April 2020 (UTC)Reply
Exploring the history of our entry here (for those with the permissions to see it), the mąʼii bikʼiizgi hadzíjiní EN WT page was created on August 30, 2012 by User:Stephen G. Brown. Meanwhile, the history for w:nv:Mąʼii_bikʼiizgi_hadzíjiní shows that the NV WP article was created on April 9, 2012 by User:Seb az86556, predating ours by nearly five months. Moreover, Stephen does not appear in the NV WP's page history, just Seb az86556 and a few bots. This suggests that this term was not invented by Stephen. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)Reply
@Eirikr: A bit late, but anyway... you're acting like you don't know about WT:CFI, but I know that you do. When Stephen was active, he was confronted on these neologisms multiple times and was never able to provide any evidence for them outside of wikis. He grew frustrated and chose to stop adding Navajo rather than follow the CFI. Navajo has some thorough documentation, and I'm sure you know just how hefty Young's dictionaries are. So, yes, some terms were invented by Seb rather than by Stephen, but that doesn't change the functional reality that CFI exists in part so that we don't spread neologisms made up by Wikipedians, but instead document language as it is actually used, even if that use doesn't include words for fauna of other continents. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)Reply