Talk:seek and ye shall find

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This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

seek and ye shall find[edit]

Not a proverb (unless someone can show that it is) in which case it's very sum of parts; The only mystery is the ye which can be resolved by reading the entry for ye. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Yep, delete, on those grounds. ---> Tooironic 23:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Why is this supposed to be no proverb? Matthias Buchmeier 09:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
See my comment (as of today's date) at Talk:proverb. --Mglovesfun (talk) 17:25, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I think this is a keep, all proverbs are deletable as SoP, but we keep them because we have decided that we want to keep proverbs. It fits my criteria for proverbs, which is that it is short, well known, and imparts some wisdom. - [The]DaveRoss 20:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
But on that logic most of the Bible would be includeable. ---> Tooironic 23:04, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Well certainly most of the Book of Proverbs, but I wouldn't say that most of the Bible consists of short, well known sayings meant to impart wisdom. I will agree that many proverbs do come from the Bible though, as I would assume that proverbs in many cultures come from religious texts. - [The]DaveRoss 01:47, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I'd say keep. Its a diachronic/diacultural version of RTFM. DCDuring TALK 20:19, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Keep as per TheDaveRoss. --Anatoli 22:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I definitely dispute that all proverbs are SoP. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I will retract that "all" and replace it with a many/most. - [The]DaveRoss 01:47, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I'd believe "most". Many fragments of proverbs enter common use (e.g. put all one's eggs in one basket, gift horse, count one's chickens, though we don't seem to have an entry for that last one), which makes the full proverbs technically SOP except on historical/etymological grounds. Also, several editors seem to consider "figurative" to exclude "idiomatic"; I don't really agree with that division, but hypothetically speaking, I think it would make most proverbs "figurative, but NISOP". —RuakhTALK 02:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I'd say a phrase can be figurative, idiomatic, both or neither. I'd put this in the 'neither' category. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep. Construction with "ye" gets twice as many g-hits, nearly five times as many books hits (29,600 to 6,250), as the same construction with "you". I compared this to another randomly selected phrase including "you", "if at first you don't succeed", which gets three thousand times as many results as the same phrase with "ye". bd2412 T 13:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep. Academic sidenote: not all proverbs are deletable as semantic sum-of-parts. To the contrary, some proverbs are such that academics are discussing what they actually mean (or what the various speakers intend by them.) --Dan Polansky 15:42, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

kept -- Prince Kassad 15:18, 28 March 2011 (UTC)