Template talk:ja new

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More verb parameters?[edit]

Could we add optional parameters for hiragana and kanji entries, please?

type can be 1, 2 or 3, see 祈る

tr can be trans or intrans, same verb with params. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 05:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Added. (|type=, |tr=) Wyang (talk) 05:30, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

hidx for katakana & long i[edit]

2 things I noticed when making フィーリング: it doesn't add hidx for katakana (or if it does, I don't know how) and it produced fiiringu as the Romanization, whereas we usually use ī for katakana. I don't think it's possible to choose between ii and ī automatically for kanji because it's ii when they belong to separate kanji and ī if they belong to one, e.g. Nīgata (I know, it looks weird.) ī outside of katakana is a rare case though. --Haplology (talk) 16:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

The conversion is complicated. I had similar things but I just fixed manually. Later on we could document what it does and if there are any limitations left. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 16:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

After some fixing, now: 1) Long 'ii' -> 'ī' for kata title. 2) hidx now added for kata title. [1] Some questions: 1) Nīgata or Niigata? (にい should be 'nii', right?) 2) Should hidx for kata title be followed by apostrophe even if the first character is not a dakuten/handakuten kana? [2] Wyang (talk) 00:15, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

  • I don't think that hidx for words like ショービニズム needs an apostrophe. It looks like I put one in there but if so, it's human error.
  • About ī/ii it's still a controversial area. I can't find it now, but it came up a year or two ago and at that time Eirikr and I think also Takasugi Shinji said that if い or あ is part of the same kanji as に or か for example, it's written as one letter with a macron. An outside user disagreed strongly but didn't make any more contributions after the discussion. I'm still not sure. The logic makes sense but Nīgata is not so I'm still a little uncomfortable with it. It's also been pointed out that it's easier to read ii than ī (which looks like i.) What do you think?
  • A new point: I may have been doing hidx wrong all these years. Maybe all of the "small" characters should be big, so しょうゆ -> しようゆ? Glancing at my paper dictionary, しゅう comes right before しゆう. I don't know how the server sorts by default. I think that Japanese Wikipedia makes all of the kana big on their sort keys, and I have seen a few written that way on here too. --Haplology (talk) 02:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I found the 'ii/ī' discussions at Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2011/December#Japanese transliteration - traditional or revised Hepburn transliteration? and Wiktionary talk:About Japanese/Transliteration. I don't have a strong opinion on this; I felt inclined to follow Takasugi-san's suggestions regarding macrons, although the 'ii' suggestion is inconsistent with what's written at Hepburn romanization (which makes me wonder whether 'ii' -> ī is actually common practice) and at present using 'ii' seems more common here, eg. chiisai, 詩歌.

Don't know how Japanese dictionaries usually sort their entries. It shouldn't be a big problem in headword templates (just let hiragana/katakana be automatically converted to their hidx forms), but in context labels (in kanji entries) it might be a hassle. Wyang (talk) 03:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for digging those up, those discussions were the ones I was thinking of. I was away from a computer for a few days hence the late reply. I don't have strong feelings about it either but I've been following Takasugi-san's style since he, Eirikr, and Anatoli all agree on it. Fortunately it doesn't come up often, and examples they mentioned like 詩歌 are rare. --Haplology (talk) 11:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
OK. Wyang (talk) 02:15, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

suru verb enabled[edit]

See template page. Do we need additional functions? eg. na/i-adjectives, parameters, etc. Wyang (talk) 02:15, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It would be great, if you could add na/i-adjectives. The conjugations for verbs of both groups are predictable too, so are the conjugation templates. Don't know how hard it would be to code.
Perhaps you could do for kanji verbs, you could allow parameters: "ja-go-su|現|あらわ" to generate (if "arawa" is generated from "あらわ"), as in 現す (arawasu), a "go-dan" verb (5):
For "ichi-dan" verbs (1), this result would be great, see 鋳る (iru), again if romaji is generated from hiragana:
For go-dan verbs, the consonant is important. In this line "ja-go-su|現|あらわ" "go" stands for 5 (conjugation type), "su" indicates the consonant (mu, tsu, ru, gu, etc.). Note verb in both ichi-dan and go-dan can end in "-eru" and "-iru".
I don't know how much you know about Japanese, feel free to ask. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Verb conjugation now enabled too. I've also fixed some other things, eg. geminate voiced consonants (bb,dd etc.) (please tell me if errors like this occur). Will look at adjectives later. Wyang (talk) 05:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all the work on this template. It's very helpful. Just to add something about adjectives, if you do add a function for those, it might be better to make the field "infl" instead of "declension" because recently some editors decided that Japanese adjectives had "inflections" and not "declensions," and it looks a bit funny if the page says "Inflection" but the code says "decl," but it's on the back end so it's not a big deal.
If it's not too hard, I have just one feature request. If there's a way to include an alternative forms section at the top, that would be fantastic. They occur quite frequently. --Haplology (talk) 06:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for all the hard work! I will join testing and using this template as I did before. At the moment I'm busy with other things at the moment (a Russian verb conjugations module), so I won't mass-produce Japanese enrties right now. We will also need to document this template and make it visible from Japanese related documents, like WT:AJA. On the terminology side - Japanese uses kanji, not hani as in Module:ja --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 06:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Think I've done adjectives and alt forms too; please see template. Also fixed: reverse order in {{ja-pos}}. btw, Kanji is also 'Hani' (in the infobox on right)... Wyang (talk) 08:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, that's awesome. There's one thing that's not part of this template, but I looked at the source of a few templates and couldn't figure out what the problem was: the problem is that the ja-adj templates don't select the right categories. When you use the decl fields, it works, but when you use the infl fields it doesn't. They select Category:Japanese adjectives instead of Category:Japanese な-na adjectives (or the -i adjective category). It seems simple to fix but I don't know where to look for that bug. --Haplology (talk) 16:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Fixed: [3]. Wyang (talk) 22:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

More PoS[edit]

Could we have more parts of speech generated, please? Perhaps four? (would be great for other languages as well) --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:46, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

What other PoS do you have in mind? Currently:

  • n, noun: noun
  • s, suru: suru
  • an, anoun: Adjectival noun
  • v, verb: Verb
  • a, adj, adjective: Adjective
  • adv, adverb: Adverb
  • propn, proper noun: Proper noun
  • ph, phrase: Phrase
  • intj: Interjection
  • conj: Conjunction
  • part: Particle
  • prep: Preposition
  • c, count, counter: Adverbial noun

Wyang (talk) 21:15, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant more SoP in one go, not new. I tried to generate two but only got one. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:25, 22 March 2014 (UTC)