User talk:HeliosX/2012

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Hi, please note this edit. If you want to use context labels like that, please use that style. :) Thanks. 50 Xylophone Players talk 19:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Gaulish

Because someone will ask if I don't, where are these Gaulish terms used? A specific text, or a specific group of texts? Mglovesfun (talk) 14:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/gaul.html This is the only source of Gaulish terms I found, I don't even speak Gaulish but when I saw that there were only three Gaulish nouns I added some more. HeliosX (talk) 14:22, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I've compared some forms on that website and I've got(tten) a result for the present tense active indicative: 1. u (sure) 2. ? 3. e (very unsure) 1. mu (sure) 2. ? 3. nti or enti (sure) imperative singular: i (sure) imperative plural: ? How can I put those forms in a beta inflection grid for Gaulish? HeliosX (talk) 04:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Just as long as you're aware of WT:CFI#Attestation, Gaulish terms have to be used in Gaulish texts, and not just hypothetical. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

etyl

{{etyl}} doesn't use lang, it uses a second unnamed parameter. In the case of German, de. Also lang=de is only for German, not Latin or Egyptian and so on. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

{{wikipedia}}

Please be careful to make sure there's an article to link to when using this template. I don't know if you were aware that "set" is Icelandic for sediment. I certainly wasn't- until I clicked on the wikipedia link you added to Set (w:is:Set).

I try to never create a link without checking it to verify that the link goes where I think it does. If the article is under a different name, the first parameter to the {{wikipedia}}template is the correct name of the article, which can be followed by a second parameter, which is the name as you want it displayed. For Set in Icelandic, I corrected the template to: {{wikipedia|Set (guð)|Set}}

When you add an image, don't forget that it may crowd out things like the Wikipedia boxes if you don't put it in the right place. I had to move the image of Set to the top of the page and resize it to make it fit. Also, remember that this is English Wiktionary, so image captions should be in English.

Danke schön! Chuck Entz (talk) 05:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll follow these instructions. But the Icelandic article I didn't created, nontheless it's good to know, isn't it? I corrected the pictures now. But could you help me with creating a declension grid for German proper nouns, if there isn't one yet? The forms are for masculine:

Nominative Sg.: der Anubis

Genitive Sg.: des Anubis / des Anubis'

Dative Sg.: dem Anubis

Accusative Sg.: den Anubis

Plural doesn't exist with proper nouns, also no indefinite articles. I'd appreciate it, if you could do that. I think I'll look up how Danish, Icelandic and Faroese and Swedish proper nouns are declined.

Please answer & excuse my English Greetings HeliosX (talk) 08:41, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

For Danish, the definite form singular non-nominative I guess, is:

Anubisen

All other forms wouldn't make sense, there doesn't exist Dative or something like that, does it?

There should be declension templates. Look through Category:German proper nouns for examples with declension, and see what they use. I would also suggest typing "template:de-" into the search box to see what the auto-fillin feature suggests, and trying different likely variations on "de-infl" or "de-decl" as template names to see what people have already created.

As for the images: the Anubis article still looks odd- you might have to resize it with a smaller number in "upright". I'm not going to dictate what images go where, but it does seem odd to have separate images for different languages when there's no difference between languages in what's referred to. If the entry were about something that looks different in the places where different languages are spoken, that would make sense. In cases like this, image placement is a matter of what looks best on the page, which isn't something I should be deciding for someone else. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

uendo

WT:About Latin says not to use 'v' and 'u' interchangeably. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Hm...of course "vendere" is more correct but I don't know if "uendere" didn't exist since it's from Medieval Latin. https://www.google.de/search?q=Latin+uendere&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox- Greetings HeliosX (talk) 12:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The orthography varies like this even in English. Hence the First Folio of Shakespeare declares the "Tragedie of Romeo & Ivliet". We probably would not consider "Ivliet" to be a separate entry based on that. You also have to be aware that on-line sources often include scannos or editorial decisions about orthography, as does almost any printed edition of a work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I think it's more accurate to say that this point is contentious. See Talk:houer which failed as English 'hover', also Talk:wiues, for wives. I seem to think there were some nominated for similar reasons which passed which is way I say contentious. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:59, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I don't give a what was invented in Medieval Latin, the thing that is interesting there is that "uendere" aka "vendere" is reduplicative. I researched, the correct form is "vendere", this is a variation of it, so you may delete it. — This unsigned comment was added by HeliosX (talk • contribs) at 10:25, 26 July 2012 (UTC).

Template naming.

Hi,

Latin templates should start with Template:la-, not Template:Latin_.

Thanks,
—Ruakh_TALK
12:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

{{rfscript|Avestan}}

Hi,

I've noticed that you sometimes add Avestan script and {{rfscript|Avestan}}. What is that for?

Thanks,
—Ruakh_TALK
15:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I was told to use {{rfscript|Armenian}} for the Armenian script so I thought that'd work too.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 18:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't follow. The purpose of {{rfscript|Avestan}} is to announce to the world, “Hey, someone needs to add the Avestan script here!” So I don't get why you're adding {{rfscript|Avestan}} while also adding Avestan script. Did someone tell you to add {{rfscript|Armenian}} when you add Armenian script? —Ruakh_TALK 18:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Uppa, sorry. I thought that'd mean that there would be a refer to a script for the script. I won't use {{rfscript}} anymore whilst adding the script itself.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 18:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Understood. Thanks. (And I should have explained — rf means "request(s) for": for example, rfc, rfe, and rfp mean "request for cleanup", "request for etymology", and "request for pronunciation", respectively.) —Ruakh_TALK 18:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

For Armenian please continue adding {{rfscript|Armenian}}, even when you think you have added the proper script. In Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/albʰós your Armenian spellings were wrong. You shouldn't "detransliterate" from languages you're not familiar with. Please also see User_talk:Strabismus#Script requests you are fulfilling. --Vahag (talk) 15:48, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

reduplicative conjugations

I'm not sure that I understand your purpose in creating templates specially for reduplicative verbs. Why not use the existing templates? --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I sign the Latin reduplicative verbs with the reduplicative templates to only include the reduplicative verbs in their category. I asked this on Grease pit and because nobody replied to my last reply to that topic there I processed my plan :'.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 18:40, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

That's what I thought. That is not a good reason to create a whole new set of templates. To add items to a category, tag them with that category in the article. Do not create a separate conjugation template simply to categorize an artifice of spelling. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know that an entry can simply be tagged with a category. Even though, I like this "Reduplicative Third Conjugation" and I also created an appendix for the reduplicative conjugation template :/, but if you want, I can only tag the untagged reduplicative verbs with the category.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 20:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

That would be appropriate. "Reduplicative" is not a conjugation pattern in Latin, and there is no such thing as a "reduplicative conjugation". There are verbs whose 3rd principal part has a stem that is reduplicative, but it is misleading to label that as a conjugation pattern. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Some mistakes you made

[1] This is why I advised caution before. An issue I and other editors here have with your edits is that you add things, assuming you know what you're doing, when you really don't, and others then have to fix your mistakes. I'd like to ask you to be more careful and not add things you aren't quite familiar with yet. If you're in doubt about something, don't touch it, leave it to someone else. Incorrect information is worse than no information. —CodeCat 16:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Why did you do this?

diff —CodeCat 21:33, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I did this to put it into the plural. I missed out the noun, it's fixed now, the noun is not missed out.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 10:25, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Proto-Baltic

Why did you create a duplicate (and invalid) code? —CodeCat 20:13, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but could you please tell me the correct version then as I think Proto-Baltic is important for some entries.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 08:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

The category that contains all family code templates, Category:Family code templates, mentions that all family codes are derived from ISO 639-5. —CodeCat 10:20, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Quotation marks.

We don't use „this“ „quotation“ „style“ here. —Ruakh_TALK 12:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Multiple etymologies.

When a single language has words from multiple etymologies at the same spelling, the following kind of format is used:

==Latvian==

===Etymology 1===     <-- note the "1"
...

====Noun====          <-- note the extra equals signs
...

=====Synonyms=====    <-- note the extra equals signs
...

===Etymology 2===     <-- note the "2"
...

====Adjective====     <-- note the extra equals signs
...

=====Synonyms=====    <-- note the extra equals signs
...

I've fixed [[ass#Latvian]] for you.

—Ruakh_TALK 12:28, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought about that when adding that to it, but as there was no first etymology I didn't find it valuable that for. Anyways I'll use such format then that for.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 12:32, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

This format is necessary, because it's the only way to indicate what sections belong to what etymology. —Ruakh_TALK 12:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

ήΐωυ

You added that word to Template:termx, but I think you didn't quite check it because it appears to have two accent marks and an incorrect transliteration. Could you check again please? —CodeCat 16:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if "ἠΐωυ" is correct cuz "ā" in Ancient Greek is "ē" in Ionic Greek, but I don't know if it applies on diphtongs (which are long) beginning with "a", perhaps: ἀΐω → ἠΐωυ (recognize that "ai" in "ἀΐω" is long due to the diphtong). I deleted "ἠΐωυ", anyways I propose that we can find a more correct term in Ionic Greek that for.

By the way, do you know some about Lesbian Greek? It'd interest me cuz I heard that Sappho was a great poet of Lesbos, if we can figure out how to assume Lesbian Greek terms by Ancient Greek terms we can also improve the Hellenic descendants in entries.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 20:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't know much about Ancient Greek. I just noticed that the word you added had two accent marks, which seemed like an error. —CodeCat 21:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

ndihem

Could you try to include a bit more information in your definitions? Because they're often way too vague/open-ended; for example, right now I have no idea what ndihem means.

Thanks in advance,
—Ruakh_TALK 14:48, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

𒂊𒆪(

Is this page-name right? —Ruakh_TALK 16:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

arratisem

Did you intentionally remove the interwiki-links? If so, why? —Ruakh_TALK 20:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Moves/redirects.

When you move a page, please be sure to put {{delete}} at the old title, so an admin can see it and delete the leftover redirect. —Ruakh_TALK 18:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Please? —Ruakh_TALK 01:45, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

{{egy-conj-pres}}

I don't get it. Why only the present-tense forms? —Ruakh_TALK 14:14, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Other forms I can add as well, anyways the present tense I think is the same with all Egyptian verbs, it is always the stem that is listed up in dictionarys which is used for the present tense, more correctly by geminated verbs the geminated stem and by normal verbs the normal stem is used for the present tense.

Other tenses might require different circumstances, so I'd like to add them later.

About the redirects, I'll put a {{delete}} on the page.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 16:38, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Egyptian conjugation/declension templates

Hi HeliosX!
I see that you've been working on Egyptian templates! I've recently been taking a crack at getting the Egyptian on wiktionary standardised, and I was wondering whether you might be interested in commenting on the draft system that has been drawn up at Wiktionary:About Egyptian.
Furthermore, there has been some discussion on my talk page about full verb paradigms. I've got as far as drawing up tables for each of the 18 transative conjugations and for all the irregular forms (I haven't drawn up a version for intransitive verbs, because it is the same except for lacking the passive in the finite forms), but I have no idea how to turn them into templates. Perhaps you might be willing to lend your skills to that endeavour? Regards, Furius (talk) 02:43, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, I might take a look at that. I saw that you used to create entries for nouns in Middle Egyptian, so about the declension, I already created tables for the nouns. For masculine nouns you can use {{egy-decl-m|noun without determinative|noun without determinative|noun without determinative|determinative|determinative}} and for feminine nouns you can use {{egy-decl-f|noun without determinative|noun without determinative|noun without determinative|determinative|determinative}} in hieroglyphs.

Here you can find a font for the Egyptian hieroglyphs block in unicode, the font Aegyptus there's the right.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 05:15, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi HeliosX!

I just saw the new template. It is a good start! :) However, I have a few thoughts:

1. The other tenses still need to be added - the imperfective, imperative, consequential, old perfect, participles, relative participles, infinitive forms, and stative. Also, the passive forms. (You can see them all here: User talk:Furius/Egyptian Conjugations#Second-geminate (2ae-gem)
2. It should be "perfective," not "present"
3. The prospective is wrong - it should reduplicate and there shouldn't be any 𓅱 (w)
4. You have confused the suffix pronouns for a conjugation. Egyptian verbs, except in the stative don't conjugate. So sḏm.f is literally "he hears" or "er hört." It is not the same as "hört." If I want to say "the man hears"/"der Mann hört" in Egyptian, I say sḏm z (not sḏm.f z!).
5. Would it be possible for the template to say "bilateral geminate" on it, so that when people see it on a page they know what type of verb they are looking at?

This is an excellent start! I have no idea how to make templates so I am very impressed! :)

Furius (talk) 15:36, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I fixed the table! I also found out that the necessitive has the geminated stem as well. But about the suffixes, how do you think, should we add the personal pronoun suffixes or not? For the other tenses, I've added the imperfective tense.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 06:42, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi HeliosX!

It is looking pretty cool! With regards to the suffixes, I think that they should not be in the template - because they take up an enormous amount of space and they aren't part of the verb (Except for the stative tense, which has special person endings).

Furius (talk) 01:25, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

FYI.

Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/med-?diff=18542877. —Ruakh_TALK 14:08, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:grc-decl-2nd-prx-aio

This template was brought to my attention, and, as its creator, I thought I'd try and work with you on it. First of all, it's definitely wrong. The genitive singular has two different endings, one which is linked (-ω), and one which is displayed (-η). This needs to be rectified one way or another. We do occasionally link and display something different, but it's usually something that's not meaningfully different, like a vowel with and without a length marker. Second, can I ask what types of words this would be used for? I assumed it was for Aeolic second declension nouns with a circumflex on the penultimate syllable, but I couldn't find anything about this in Smyth. Could you let me know which Smyth section to look in, or give me an example of a word which would use this declension, that would help out a lot. Also, if you could leave a note on my talk page when you get back to me, whether here or there, I'd appreciate it. I don't check my watchlist too often these days. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:33, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I knew that they two different genitives can be used, but I didn't know which I should choose, so I took that one used by Sappho. I think βράκος (brákos) ("a long robe") may be conjugated with the second declension. The table is for the Aeolic second declension without any circumflexes. I think this table should certainly be Lesbian Greek, subgroup of Aeolic Greek, if you could analyse all second declension words in texts of Sappho and/or Alkaios. Later we can add Thessalian Greek and Boetian Greek. Unfortunaley my knowledge of Ancient Greek isn't that big yet as I could analyse texts of Sappho.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 04:29, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I double-checked my sources, and made some fixes, and filled out the template a bit. Also, your original name was better, and so I have moved it back to that. Let me know if you have any problems with my changes. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:39, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

ndihem

ndihem?diff=18575781. Please be more careful. —Ruakh_TALK 20:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

ἔλαφος

I really hated to have to delete your entry, but you left out the breathing mark (Unlike Modern Greek, Ancient Greek has them on every vowel/diphthong that starts a word). Normally I would have just moved it, but there was already an entry under the correct spelling. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

βράκος

I could be missing something, but judging by Liddell & Scott at Perseus, this should be a third declension noun with βράκεος as the genitive singular. Do you have anything that gives βράκω as the genitive? As for etymology, the mention of the digamma in the above reference leads me to think that the beta may just be a remnant of a *w, which would be lost in most dialects. You might see if you can find ράκος ([2]) in any etymological sources. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:37, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

It's complicated, you may change it, but concerning the declension table, we actually need the subdialects of Aeolic Greek meaningly Lesbian Greek, Boetian Greek, Aeolian Greek and Thessalian Greek, they all have own variations in terms, conjugations and declensions.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 14:58, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/yAus

What does the capital A stand for? Also, see WT:AINE. —CodeCat 19:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Read again please... specifically the part about diphthongs. It should be *yaws- (you also forgot the hyphen). Also are you sure this root contained an a? Roots with a are rare in PIE. If the Latin form was originally ious then it would have been a regular e/o vowel root and not an a-vowel root. So it should be *yews-. —CodeCat 19:43, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

zgjedh

FYI: zgjedh?diff=18652098.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you replied to these sorts of comments, so we know we're getting through; right now, it feels a bit like talking to a wall! :-P

Thanks,
—Ruakh_TALK 18:26, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes!

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Indic

On Wiktionary we prefer to use the name 'Indo-Aryan' for this family. I'm not sure why but that's how it is. See {{etyl:inc}}. —CodeCat 18:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Gheg Albanian

I would like to ask for your help in adding Gheg Albanian forms to the inflection table templates. While I have already added a few elements, I am afraid someone with a better knowledge of the system may need to redo my changes and finish the rest of the additions. Could you please help?

The gist of changes that needs to be done is adding a parallel Gheg participle (this is shorter for almost all verbs; rarely is it the same as the Tosk participle). Then, the participle could be used to create the gerunds, infinitives, and compound tense conjugations. Preferably, a few other differences between Tosk and Gheg could be marked (e.g., the present tense for a certain class of verbs and the aorist).

Example

Participle: prekur (Tosk) / prekë (Gheg)

Present gerund: duke prekur / tue prekë

Past gerund: duke pasë prekur / tue pas prekë

Infinitive I: me prekë (Gheg only) [passive: me u prekë]

Infinitive II: për të prekur (Tosk) / për të prekë (Gheg)

Present Tense: prek/preki, prek/prekë, prek/prekë, prekim, prekni, prekin

Aorist: prekja/preksha, prekje/prekshe, prekte, preknim/prekshim, preknit/prekshit, preknin/prekshin

. . .

There may be more details that would have to be considered, but this example is a good starting point. I can follow your edits to make further changes. Let me know if you need any clarification.

Thank you, --Getoar TX (talk) 07:19, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

My example only covers verbs that end in a consonant other than -j. For regular verbs, the following rules apply: a Tosk participle ending in -uar is -ue in Gheg; -yer is -ye; -irë is -i; -ur is -ë.--Getoar TX (talk) 07:29, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the Gheg dialect, I just propose that we mustn't add the forms with slashes, but on a second table, that may be attached to the other one to not to confuse somebody. It'd be confusing to add the Gheg forms by slashes as one does specifiy on either Tosk or Gheg.

I have no knowledge about Gheg, I'm sorry.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 20:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Gothic inflected forms

Some time ago, I collected a list of all attested Gothic words, and created Category:Gothic romanizations entries for them. When you add conjugation or declension tables, could you:

• check whether the romanized names have blue links
• check whether those blue links are romanizations of Gothic
• if so, create a form-of entry for the Gothic script entry

? So for example at 𐌰𐍄𐍃𐌰𐌹𐍈𐌰𐌽 (atsaiƕan), the link atsaiƕiþ is blue and has a Gothic entry, so you would then create the entry 𐌰𐍄𐍃𐌰𐌹𐍈𐌹𐌸 (atsaiƕiþ) with the appropriate definitions (in this case, 3). I have been trying to keep track of this whenever someone adds new Gothic entries, by using Category:Gothic entries needing inflection, but when you add the inflection tables yourself, that no longer works for me. So if you could do that for me instead I would appreciate it. If you don't want to or don't know how, could you add {{rfinfl|lang=got}} to the entries anyway, even if they already have inflection tables? That way I know what still needs to be checked. Thank you! —CodeCat 02:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and also, for some verbs like 𐌰𐍄𐍃𐌰𐌹𐍈𐌰𐌽 (atsaiƕan) above, the infinitive itself isn't attested, so there is no romanization entry yet and the link on the headword line appears red. Could you create that too whenever it's missing? —CodeCat 02:33, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Wait, stop! I didn't mean create the romanized entries, too! I already did all the work on 𐍃𐌰𐌹𐍈𐌰𐌽 (saiƕan), the entries you are creating now are all unattested! They shouldn't be there! —CodeCat 04:36, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

PIE spelling

Can you please follow the spelling conventions lined out in WT:AINE and apply them to Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/dheu- that you just created? Also, that page needs some more fixing too. Thank you. —CodeCat 16:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Please read again. Particularly the bit about diphthongs. —CodeCat 16:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)