Talk:nigger

Interpretation

Another word whose use is controversial. I have added a usage note along the lines of the one at "queer" (qv). It is my interpretation of the use of the term. Would other members please look at this and modify it if necessary. Thanks. -- Paul G 12:14, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The note says about what it should, but it's a bit long. -dmh 04:45, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

How about replacing most of that with a {{pedialite}} tag or a manual link to the rather lengthy Nigger (word) article on Wikipedia? -- Muffuletta 22:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe this is a 100% correct definition, for many people (including some that are prominent African-Americans) state that "Nigger" simply means a dull, ignorant person. It does not necessarily mean "A black person", though usually when saying "Nigger" in the definition I have stated above, it is referring to an African-American who acts in such a way to ruin the name of the rest of their culture; whereas variations are given to other races and ethnicies (i.e, "Wigger" for a Caucasian, "Chigger" for an Asian, "Spigger" for a Hispanic, etc.). — This unsigned comment was added by 68.48.120.147 (talk) at 22:54, 9 January 2006.

I would agree with your sentiments. --BoJackson34 00:34, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

It IS a very offensive term for dark-skinned people and always was

...At least in the US and Canada. Cable TV stations that don't censure the word 'fuck' will often still bleep 'nigger'. Most people I know whose vernacular includes 'motherfucker' will still substitute the phrase 'the N-word'. And even those African-Americans who have tried to reclaim it typically make a clear distinction between 'nigga' and 'nigger' and consider 'nigga' acceptable only when used by black people. The individual above who said '...many people (including some that are prominent African-Americans) state that "Nigger" simply means a dull, ignorant person' is completely wrong. I did a thorough google search using various permutations and found zero reference to this use.
When I first read this page I felt that the offensiveness of the word was too, er, buried in it. I felt it really should be made clearer that, at least in the US & Canada, it is completely taboo (at least for people who are not of African descent). But I also realize that it is a very controversial word and there are many differing opinions on it, and that its connotations may be different in other parts of the world, even English-speaking parts (this, in fact, is a large part of the reason I thought its seriousness in North America should be clear...in case someone from another culture comes to this page wanting to learn its acceptability in the US).
So my compromise was to just make a couple small changes. I changed the 'see also' at the very top so that readers understand that Wiktionary's 'Nigger' page just gives you the German definition, that they are in the right place to learn what nigger really means (including context). I removed 'now' from the first definition which previous read "(now offensive, ethnic slur, vulgar, see usage notes) A dark-skinned person..." Again, this seems like trying to mitigate the word's offensiveness. It is also untrue. Nigger has ALWAYS been offensive (at least in my part of the world). From www.tolerance.org/magazine/fall-2011/straight-talk-about-the-nword: ‘We know that as early as the 17th century, “negro” evolved to “nigger” as intentionally derogatory, and it has never been able to shed that baggage since then.’ Per Merriam-Webster (www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger), ‘The word was first included in a Merriam-Webster dictionary in 1864, at which time it was defined as a synonym of Negro, with a note indicating that it was used "in derision or depreciation." There has never been a definition like "an ignorant person" for this word in any subsequent dictionary published by this company. Nor do we know of such a definition in any earlier dictionary.’ Historic examples that some will cite as instances where the word is used benignly or even positively typically use a very similar form such as negro or negar or niger. In a smaller percentage of instances where the word's use seems benign or positive, it is being used facetiously or as subtle social commentary (e.g. Huckleberry Finn).Niccast (talk) 23:04, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

A somewhat technical question

Is there really a difference between "highly", "extremely" and "strongly" offensive? — This unsigned comment was added by 81.218.208.27 (talk) at 20:58, 10 April 2005.

Is the definition as "badass" helpful? "badass" is itself defined as a "mean-tempered or belligerent person" - if that's what's meant it might be better to put that in directly. (I'm not from the US so I'm unfamiliar both with this use of "nigger" and with any use of "badass") — This unsigned comment was added by 82.19.108.218 (talk) at 18 September 2005.

"A person of Negro descent who acts in an unapproved manner, usually a badass."

I see my entry for #3 was deleted pretty quickly, perhaps because I am new and one of my first edits was to a controversial page. However, I don't see how this isn't an appropriate entry. In the first entry, the word means "You are black, and being black is bad." The second entry refers to when the word connotes "you are black, and that is cool." My third, proposed entry would reflect another meaning; "You are black, and you think being a badass is cool, and this is bad." The other two entries just don't work for Chris Rock's "I love black people, but I hate niggers." And it's been used that way by others too. Citizen Premier 01:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry. That was me. I looked again at your definition. It's valid. Please feel free to put it back. --Dvortygirl 03:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Recent changes.

I'm learning so plese for give any transgressions.

I changed the etymology trying to make it a little more general.

I don't know the extent of slavery but it was not restricted to the south.

I don't know the full scope of slave activity but it was not restricted to platations.

I did not change the regional reference from America to North America or even the United States because I'm not complete sure of the scope of slavery and the orgin of the word in question with in the scope of slavery but I do feel that America is a bit generic and discounts the importants of Centeral and South America by presuming it refers to North America, if as I suspect that is infact the proper region for the etymological orgins of this word. — This unsigned comment was added by Spam1 (talk • contribs) at 19:05, 7 April 2006.

Page Protection

I'm new to Wiktionary, though I've been editing on Wikipedia for awhile. I was going to indicate that the word's usage is considered "highly" offensive rather than simply "offensive," yet when I went to make this minor change, I noticed the page was protected. I fail to understand why this is the case. In looking at the edit history, it appears the actions that prompted the current protected status were 3 edits made by 2 people spread over 3 days. Could someone please explain why the threshold for protecting pages is so much lower here than at Wikipedia? — This unsigned comment was added by DavidGC (talk • contribs) at 02:17, 24 June 2006.

The protection of this page seems to be at least partly a result of the conversation that is now at Wiktionary:Beer parlour archive/April 06#Censorship. Rod (A. Smith) 22:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The threshold isn't much higher, actually. It's just that people forget from time to time to unprotect pages :-). Unprotected now. — Vildricianus 23:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Um no, this attracts far too much vandalism to ever leave less than semi-protected. The user (above) is certainly capable of editing the semi-protected page now. Because it is such a sensitive page, I've re-semiprotected it. --Connel MacKenzie T C 00:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding the Portuguese equivalent

Since there are the equivalents of "nigger" in other languages, thought i would add the portuguese definition too: nego(it should be noted this is slang). Thank you. — This unsigned comment was added by Paulinhag (talk • contribs) at 22:45-22:46, 10 July 2006.

New Translation?

I was wondering if someone could please add the Chinese translation 黑鬼 (hēi guǐ) for me, if it meets Wiktionary's standards... I'm not sure what kind of sources I'm supposed to cite, but I'll try to explain it. I've heard this used in three different dialects (Fuzhou dialect, Mandarin, Cantonese) with their respective pronounciations. This is a better translation than 黑人 (hēi rén) considering that, when this term emerged, Chinese immigrants were entering the United States and many had never seen dark-skinned people in their lifetime. Furthermore, only American-born and raised "second generation" Chinese citizens like myself use 黑人 (hēi rén)in respect for the other ethnic group. As for usage, it's used very casually and not considered offensive - like Americans would use "African-American" or "black person."

Please and thank you in advance.

EDIT: I'm also unsure of the Hanzi I used... I'm only familiar with spoken Chinese, not written. Could someone verify the Hanzi please?

Japanese: 黒いやつ (roumaji: kuroiyatsu)

As far as I can tell, it's used similarly. — This unsigned comment was added by 70.160.116.44 (talk) at 02:09-02:11, 27 June 2007.

"Mayate"

According to the WordReference forums, the RAE dictionary, and even Wiktionary itself, the Spanish word mayate generally refers to either a type of beetle or a homosexual man. Looking at the forum thread, it seems that only in California does the word refer to black people. I'm not sure whether this was known when the translation was added or if somebody was trying to be mischievous by calling black people homosexuals. Either way I suppose this comment is more of a warning or usage note for the word than some sort of call to action, so I may add something to the mayate entry. — This unsigned comment was added by DAgosta (talk • contribs) at 01:55, 13 April 2008.

Hawaiian "Nika"

The Hawaiian language word for nigger is "nika" according to the Mary Kawena Pukui & Samuel H. Elbert Hawaiian Dictionary, which has been for many years the definitive Hawaiian-English dictionary. It's obviously a loan word modified to fit Hawaiian phonology but I think someone should add it. 98.151.32.223 20:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

will someone please add

Audio (Northern California, US)

(file)

{{audio|En-us-ncalif-nigger.ogg|Audio (Northern California, US)}} please?Acdcrocks 03:22, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

RFV in which this came up

This came up during the RFV of niggering; see Talk:niggering. - -sche (discuss) 22:00, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

When did the "dictionary" remove the TRUE definition that follows:

A person of dull, ignorant, dim-witted and lazy in spirit whose activities are most noted by taking credit for other people's work. It is not exclusive of or determined by race. It is not an ethnic or racial slur in its true definition.

Do you not think that perhaps this definition was intentionally created as a deflection from the words original roots? Allowing supremacists to deny racism by saying, "It just means ignorant." This definition is fairly pervasive. I have even heard black people say it. I would say it was most likely created for this reason.

It makes no difference who invented the incorrect definition. It’s not the meaning, so nobody is interested in it. It’s nonsense. —Stephen ^(Talk) 05:46, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like you made it up. It was never "removed". Equinox ◑ 01:13, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

actualy its not made up when i was a kid thats what i read in a webster dictionary so yes it has been removed and we as representatives of the people want to know why

Unlikely. Find the exact dictionary and prove it. Equinox ◑ 17:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

What comes to mind is... prove it. If you're so sure of yourself, it should be no trouble at all. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:52, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Funny because this is the EXACT Definition i was raised with, Nigger was defined as any person (PERSON) Showing ignorance or a lack of education. That was out of my Merriam Websters Dictionary, (removed moronic and irrelevant ranting) and yes, the original definition was removed... in the 2010 draft of the new revised edition, look at the unabridged version and you will find it

Why don't you find it for us? —CodeCat 23:16, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

You are correct^^^^^^ In my dictionary that I grew up using Merriam Websters Dictionary, it clearly was defined as "An ignorant person" this unsigned comment by User:32.209.76.148 21:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

I am glad to see that there are others who remember this definition in the dictionary also. I clearly remember looking up the word in my dictionary many years ago and it was a short definition, "An ignorant person." I remember just as clearly looking up the word faggot and it said, "a bundle of sticks", and bitch and it said, "a female dog". Few things in my life have I remembered with such clarity.Hisstory1 (talk) 08:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Since you cannot produce the dictionary, it is as though it never existed. —Stephen ^(Talk) 09:19, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The 1903 Century dictionary has several definitions of nigger that we don't currently reflect, but none like the one you mention. See the following section. - -sche (discuss) 00:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

The dictionary I grew up with also said "An ignorant person" or "To act "Nigardly" with ignorance" or " I know lots of people have different feelings on this but it IS what I grew up reading::::::: (Color has no bearing of the meaning)

There is no such dictionary. You have repeatedly failed to name it or prove it. Stop lying. Equinox ◑ 13:09, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

This is not a lie. That was the definition and the only one for it that I found then. There seem to have been changes to the definition over time due to the offensive nature of the word so proving it will require someone who currently has a copy of that edition to photograph it and upload it online and currently I do not have a copy readily available to do so. Hisstory1 (talk) 08:19, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, you have to be able to identify the exact dictionary so we can see for ourselves. If you cannot, then for all practical purposes it doesn't exist. —Stephen ^(Talk) 09:19, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Besides that, the word niggard is not related to the word nigger. To act niggardly means to act in a stingy or miserly way. While nigger is ultimately from Latin, niggard is Germanic, and has nothing to do with nigger. —Stephen ^(Talk) 12:22, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure when they added it, but Merriam-Webster now has a note specifically stating that the belief that nigger originally meant or was defined as "an ignorant person" is bogus, and that such a definition has never appeared in a Merriam/Webster dictionary (pace the claims above), and is not found in any earlier dictionary, either. - -sche (discuss) 10:05, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

1903 Century definitions

FWIW, the 1903 Century dictionary has the following definitions, some of which we are missing (but only some of which may be attested):

1. A black man; a negro.
2. A native of the East Indies or one of the Australian aborigines.
3. A black caterpillar, the larva of Athalia centifolia, the turnip saw-fly.
4. A kind of holothurian common off the coast of Cornwall, England: so called by Cornish fishermen.
5. A steam-capstan on some Mississippi river boats, used to haul the boat over bars and snags by a rope fastened to a tree on the bank.
6. A strong iron-bound timber with sharp teeth or spikes protruding from its front face, forming part of the machinery of a sawmill, and used in canting logs, etc.
7. An impurity in the covering of an electrical conductor which serves to make a partial short circuit, and thus becomes sufficiently heated to burn and destroy the insulation. [Colloq.]

- -sche (discuss) 00:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

 Done I can find "mentions" at least for all of them, and uses for most. I've added all the senses and they can undergo RFV if needed. Equinox ◑ 17:07, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Alternative forms

Could somebody add niggah and nigguh to an "Alternative forms" section? (And I guess maybe nigga too? It's clearly a different word as well but is also used as an alternative form to this word IMHO) WurdSnatcher (talk) 13:58, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done Equinox ◑ 22:52, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

‘A friend’

Is the ‘a friend’ usage not strictly confined to the idiom ‘my nigger’? I suspect it can never ever be used with this meaning without preceding ‘my’, so this is a fixed noun phrase, not an independent noun, if this thinking is correct. CecilWard (talk) 17:16, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

‘darkie’

Is this word actually used with hatred or derogatory intent? Citations? I have very occasionally heard it used by very elderly, white, non-racist, working-class, rural speakers in England who used it possibly affectionately and certainly with no hint of hatred, disdain, racism or negativity simply to refer to a black person factually. I heard this extremely dated term used by people born in the years 1915-1930 who have very rarely met a black person. CecilWard (talk) 17:15, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

non disparaging meaning / Irish are the niggers of Europe

3. a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.
Definition 3 is not normally considered disparaging - as in "The Irish are the niggers of Europe" from Roddy Doyle's The Commitments.
https://www.wordreference.com/definition/nigger

--Backinstadiums (talk) 16:25, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Another example is Woman Is the Nigger of the World, which Lennon insisted had this meaning, but it's not clear that it's actually a distinct sense rather than an assertion that the Irish / women / whoever function as "niggers" in some capacity in the specified context, a simple simile/metaphor not unlike Appendix:Snowclones/X is the new Y: saying that "X are the Jews of Y" or "A are the women of B" is equally common:

• 1997, Jack Salzman, Cornel West, Struggles in the Promised Land: Toward a History of Black-Jewish Relations in the United States, Oxford University Press on Demand (→ISBN), page 400:

  You might say women are the Jews of the world, or Blacks are the Jews of America, or vice versa all around. Despite most Jews having white skin, and despite most Blacks being Gentile, both groups remain perennial outsiders, ...

• 2015, Nelly Las, Jewish Voices in Feminism: Transnational Perspectives, U of Nebraska Press (→ISBN), page 52:

  [In] 1982, the journalist Letty Cottin Pogrebin lists the similarities between the oppression of the Jews and that of women: "Time and again I heard the phrase 'Jews are the women of the world,' or its converse, 'Women are the Jews of the world.'"

Also: while it may not be intended to disparage the Irish/women/etc, it is generally received as offensive to/by black people, since among other things it erases that there are already women who are black, and indeed Irish women who are black (Rachael Baptist, Laura Izibor), etc. (Another one I've seen recently, which is considered offensive for different reasons, is "Republican is the new gay".)

- -sche (discuss) 17:16, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

I do see that a few other dictionaries have this, marked as (now) offensive, and one does have a quote from Ron Dellums which is at least not of the "the X are the niggers of Y" simple 'metaphor' format: "It's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers," [he said at the Capitol Hill press conference when Shirley Chisholm announced her campaign for president,] "and by this I mean the young, the black, the brown, the women, the poor—all the people who feel left out of the political process. If we can put the nigger vote together, we can bring about some real change in this country." - -sche (discuss) 14:18, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

"person...of Negro descent" vs "person of Negro descent who acts in an unapproved manner"

I'm thinking about the first two senses, "a dark-skinned person [...] of Negro descent; a black person" and "a person of Negro descent who acts in an unapproved manner". Is the latter really best handled as a separate definition of the word? I'm on the fence: maybe it is, but ... I can think of other cases where someone (especially from within the community a term denotes, but by extension also those who see themselves as allies / fellow-travellers) contrasts a reclaimed (offensive) term approbatively with a 'mainstream' term, where we handle that with e.g. usage notes. For example, in American queer circles I sometimes see the line "[I'm] not gay as in 'the Supreme Court gave me my right to get married', but queer as in 'trans women throwing bricks at cops gave me my right to get married'", which our usage note about queer sometimes being more radical and contrasted with gay being more assimilationist seems to handle, probably better than a separate sense at queer would. Other dictionaries I checked don't have our sense 2. (Dictionary.com has a rather opposite sense, for a "person of any racial or ethnic origin regarded as contemptible, inferior" etc, which I would think was just an attempt as the sense mentioned in the section above this one except that they also have another sense that's clearly that one.) - -sche (discuss) 14:26, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

@-sche I don't think a separate sense is ideal, but what about a subsense? The first two cites are also a bit at odds with the suggested meaning of "bad-ass"; instead they seem to be about people who hold other black people back (a bit like respectability politics). The third one definitely does have a positive connotation.

Also, isn't Negro too dated and offensive to be used in this place? Other online dictionaries don't use it. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 14:32, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for pointing that out, that more of the cites are negative. I changed "usually a badass" to "(whether positive or negative)" (which could, I suppose, just be dropped). And "black African descent" certainly seems like an improvement over "Negro". - -sche (discuss) 20:37, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

The phenomenon of contrasting a non-slur (with neutral or positive valence) with a slur (with negative valence) is obviously also broader than just this word; e.g. Louis CK (...yeah...) had a skit contrasting "gay guys" (neutral valence) with "faggots" (negative), similar in tone to the two negative citations contrasting "black people" and "niggers". I continue to be unsure and on the fence about whether it's a separate sense. Ehh. - -sche (discuss) 06:27, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Maybe it could be justified to split the current subsense into two, if a separate subsense "black bad-ass" is citable; getting an accurate chronology of the two types of uses doesn't seem doable, but I'm curious whether one is considerably older than the other. Using an offensive, derogatory term to specifically denote an unappreciated subgroup appears to be a bit of a thing for some people when they encounter offensive slurs. Perhaps it a folk-linguistic impulse, "if its a bad word it must apply (or it must be okay to apply it) to bad people"?

I missed this one the previous time, but "dark-skinned" isn't quite the most culturally sensitive phrasing either, even though many online dictionaries use it. Do you think it's okay to change it? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 07:42, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo Oh, very good point. Surely even light-skinned black people have been called "niggers" by hateful people for at least the last two hundred years. We really need to split definition 1 into — or at least have subsenses for — two different senses which both old dictionaries like Century (whose entry I posted further up this page) and modern ones distinguish: one ≈ "a black person" (Century oddly limits it to "a black man", and I suppose if there was a time when it was ever truly restricted in that way, that might merit either a subsense or a usage note), and another ≈ "a member of another dark-skinned racial group", such as someone from the East Indies or an Aborigine. For the latter, I suspect we may want to say "[...] another typically dark-skinned racial group" or something, if (as I suspect) the sort of people who would call them "niggers" would apply that term indiscriminately to light-skinned as well as dark-skinned ones. Also, other dictionaries do not label the non-black sense dated, but I wonder if it is: it's still used in compounds, like "sand niggers", but I wonder if "nigger"="black" has crowded out use of bare "nigger" to mean anything else like "Aborigine". I don't know. - -sche (discuss) 09:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@-sche Ah, that's not what I meant (my comment was about the subsense "black person acting in an unapproved manner" and some phrasing), but I agree it's a good idea to split the two. Maybe Australian, Canadian or (post-)colonial British sources have evidence of recent use of the word in relation to non-black peoples. (Also, I don't understand where you get the patience to argue so politely with people ranting about "the TRUE meaning of nigger"; I'd just say "look at the etymology and think for a moment, crackpot".) ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 18:52, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@-sche: It is a transitionary sense to the same sense said of any person. Edgy right-wingers in the US use it like that in my experience: “You got banned because you were a total nigger”. That is, even if they aren’t of the view that Negros always act in an unapproved or inferior way (e.g. if they also tolerate actual Negros in the group where the white has been banned). In general it is a term of abuse in circles with 4chan-like manners. Here on a random forum someone writes this:

2019 August 23, Hippie Station‎^[1]:

Yes he was an annoying cunt No that does not give you the right to laser him fucking dead during nukeops even if he is being a total nigger he didn't do anything to you to warrant you flat out murdering him like that in the logs.

Similar quotes at 4chan archives for “total nigger”. Also the many web hits for “you fucking nigger" are apparently the same. (One might say it’s a juvenile abuse of a word still having the by-meaning of comparison with the imagined stereotypical Negro, but in my first example from my memory some old experienced rightist had a detached clear concept of it. Also I think it warrants a US label.) Naturally, the audience to accept such a usage is too limited for it to be easily found in published works. But who knows what gets printed these days. Fay Freak (talk) 22:12, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

It does seem like some people think there's a non-race-specific sense. As I mention above, Dictionary.com has not one but two non-race-specific definitions: one for a "person of any racial or ethnic origin regarded as contemptible, inferior", and then a separate(!?) one for the "woman is the nigger of the world" sense discussed in the section above this one. Clearly, the citations we have under the sense discussed in this section are referring specifically to black people, and "woman is the nigger..." citations also seem to be invoking black people most of the time, although see the "nigger vote" citation above, which is explicitly broader. There don't seem to be enough non-race-specific citations yet to merit a sense, but if we could find more... - -sche (discuss) 09:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Similarity of pronunciation to 那個／那个 (nèige)

In my experience as a Mandarin Chinese student, it has sometimes been mentioned to me that this English language word and a very commonly used word in Mandarin Chinese are perceived as easy to confuse due to apparent similarity in pronunciation. In these articles, we see an example of that: [2][3] (actual event: [4]). Here are some other discussions and articles about this similarity: [5][6][7][8][9] (I do not endorse any offensive content). I suggest potentially adding nèige or 那個／那个 (nèige) as a 'see also' on this page (or adding a note somewhere of some other kind in some similar capacity) on the basis of the perceived similarity of pronunciation between the terms. I have used Template:also to document similar seeming "overlaps" of pronunciation between Chinese languages and English before, albeit they were much more mundane than this. Template:also says, "Less common usage includes links to pages that do not contain the same number of letters, but may nevertheless be confused."
I imagine this page gets a high volume of evil people coming by making bad edits, so I thought I would just make a suggestion here and let you all determine what should be done. This suggestion is my respectful attempt to help identify and document a well-known linguistic phenomena of similarity of pronunciation between two terms, one of which is violently racist and one of which is totally innocuous. I don't mean disrespect to anybody anywhere by pointing out this similarity, and in the end there may actually be no need to make any changes to Wiktionary main space. Let's make Wiktionary a place for pure knowledge and ideas. Thanks for your time reading my comment. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:59, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

It wouldn't be appropriate to link 那個 and nigger via {{also}}, since no-one is likely to confuse them in writing and {{also}} is not used to link homophones. ({{homohones}} is used for that, but only within languages.) I am sceptical that we want even a "usage note" or "see also" listing every harmless word in another language which sounds like this one (there is one in Korean, too). If the similarity is to be noted anywhere, I would think it would be in the Chinese entry, somewhat similar to how false friends are noted in the foreign language's entry. - -sche (discuss) 10:16, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Interjection

@-sche: I think when we begin a sentence with it, it does not mean we address the person as nigger. Today when I looked into the RFV for blat and seeing people italicizing what was seen as unitalicized I thought of course “nigga, what?” as the typical person who hangs around the internet too much and sees a lot of unruly people chatting, coming thus to the conclusion that it is an interjection (in either spelling), this being in such context more likely than any of the meanings under the section ”noun”. It is just like the word dude, which we already have declared as interjection. Especially evident is its character as an interjection if it is said to a woman, where I come to the next topic below … Fay Freak (talk) 20:46, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I suppose it comes down to citations...? I'm familiar with the use of it in ephemeral internet places which gets defended and/or derided as a "gamer word", used by (let's not beat around the bush) racists, whether they feel their racism is "ironic", "edgy", or dead serious. No idea whether that use has made it into print (Usenet, maybe?). Citations would also help determine the part of speech; it seems like nearly any vulgar word could be used as an interjection (just, shouting it in isolation), but using it as a sort of ?vocative? as in your example sentence does seem different enough that, if attested, it would prrrobably be the sort of thing we seem to cover with distinct senses in other cases, although often as a noun...? - -sche (discuss) 00:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

A werman, as opposed to a woman

It appears to me that the term specifically means a male, in environments where there aren’t whites to consider (that is, the bulk of London …). The other day I came again upon the relevant song in the later part of which a rapperess repeats the assertion of “taking your nigger” (no woman recites in the non-remixed original). Due to the other meanings of the word it is of course hard to find again, but totally likely too. In the end it is just like the word man which by origin means a human and got narrowed to “werman” (btw an “actual word” neoreactionaries use to be clear, not only a former word). Fay Freak (talk) 20:46, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

There definitely exists a non-gendered sense by which black women (etc) can also be slurred as niggers, so we shouldn't remove the current gender-nonspecific sense, but it does seem like there is also a male-specific subsense, yes. Some other old and new dictionaries (mentioned above) also record a male-specific sense, and it doesn't even seem to be recent, though recent use seems like it might come from a different place than older use (when some people contrasted a [male] nigger with a niggress or negress etc, and in general contrasted male terms with -ess terms). We do have two (or, like, one and a half) male-specific senses at nigga. - -sche (discuss) 23:49, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Highly Contentious (Possibly Completely Made-Up) Definition

While I would like to be bold and simply fix this with an edit, I've found that racial issues bring out the worst in editors and result in revert wars, so instead I'm bringing this up in the talk page.

Definition 4 was changed 4 months ago by Llywelynll to say "(figuratively) A person of any kind, particularly (African-American Vernacular) recognizing shared oppression or (highly offensive) used as a term of abuse for someone seen as a lazy, self-serving mooch."

The part that was changed was the "recognizing shared oppression" aspect being added, which I find to be highly irregular. I have never, ever heard nigger used this way in my life, and expect that this is also the experience of many others. Typically, nigger is used this way to refer to a person of great audacity, and has nothing to do with "recognizing shared oppression." The included quote, from Dave Chappelle's The Closer is so misattributed in this context that it makes me question if this edit is actually intentionally wiki vandalism. Dave Chappelle has been nothing if not clear in his belief that transgender people are not particularly oppressed, even if one simply looks only so far as the special this quote is from, in which he both expresses envy at the progress trans rights have achieved and also tells trans people not to punch down on comedians, meaning he considers comedians to be the subject of more systemic oppression in the United States than trans people.

This aside has only been to illustrate the highly questionable context of this edit and provide a basis for my extreme skepticism that nigger is ever used as a term that "recognizes shared oppression" (other than when it's used to refer to fellow black people, which is already covered by definition 3). I propose the definition be returned to its previous description "(figuratively, highly offensive) used as a term of abuse for someone seen as a lazy, self-serving mooch," and that any suggestion that the word is ever used as a way to recognize the shared oppression of (non-black) people be removed. Uchiha Itachi 25 (talk) 12:21, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree the citation doesn't support that clause (at best it supports the preceding, more general clause, "any person"). I also don't think it makes much sense to combine "positive AAVE use recognizing shared oppression" and "highly offensive use to slur someone". I am tempted to WT:RFVE it (independent of splitting it off as a separate thing), but possibly it's just a matter of clarifying it (WT:TR?) Btw, on the topic of AAVE / Black use, we're missing the AAVE use specifically for a male, which Fay Freak noted further up this page, and which we cover at nigga. - -sche (discuss) 01:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Etymology: Late 17th century alteration of Negro

Used in a derogatory manner since at least the Revolutionary War. In turn, negro < Mid-16th century Spanish and Portuguese negro. JMGN (talk) 11:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)