Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/May

etymology of soin

I added yesterday on the French Wiktionary the etymology of soin, quoting our most reliable source, TLFi, which I find mistaken.

TLFi rejects the Germanic sunni and links it with latin somnio, French songer 'dream, think', songe 'dream' only > soin taking care of the second meaning of songer. Essentially because of a semantic gap between soin 'care' and (closest relative) English sin.

I'd like to 'restaure' the semantic link to sin, but I need Germanic philology help.

My theory is based on knowledge of slavic etymology work and Pokorny linking sunni, sin to sum 'be', be.

In Czech, you have a 'regular' derivation from budit 'to wake up' <cause to be awake< bdít 'to be awake, to be aware> to take care' <cause to be< být 'be'.

Is there a similar 'regular' derivation in Germanic languages? That would explain the meaning (be> be aware, take care) of soin. And what is the semantic link between to be, I am, sein, Ich bin to sin and Sunde?

Thank you.

--Diligent 04:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Max Vasmer does not mention any connection between будить/бдеть and быть, nor does Machek (concerning bdíti and býti). These are the sources which I usually consult for such quæstions. My French dictionary (Le Robert pour tous) indicates a Frankish, i. e. Germanic origin. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 09:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The explanation which I am most familiar with regarding derivation of English sin from to be goes as follows: to be, be true > to be the one > to be the one (who is guilty) > guilt. According to many sources, the link between to be and sin lies at the PIE level, so it is there, but distant. Leasnam 02:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

The Larousse Dictionnaire étymologique also derives soin and soigner from Frankish *sunnjôn ("s'occuper de") but does not venture an etymology of the Frankish word. —Angr 08:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)