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Etymology scriptorium

Welcome to the Etymology scriptorium. This is the place to cogitate on etymological aspects of the Wiktionary entries.

Etymology scriptorium archives +/-
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2014


September 2014[edit]

Finnish, Estonian on and related forms[edit]

All Finnic languages inherited the Proto-Finnic copula *oldak, which also has cognates outside Finnic. But in all the Finnic languages, the third-person singular form is irregular. The regular form would be *olebi, but no descendant form of that is attested in any language (the regular descendant would be Finnish *olee, Estonian *oleb). Instead, forms appear like Finnish on, Estonian on, Karelian on, Livonian um, Veps om, Votic on, Võro om/um. Although unsourced, we also have an entry for Finnish onpi, which seems to be an older form.

What is curious about the attested forms is that they don't seem to come from the same root *ole- that the rest of the verb descends from. Finnish onpi instead reflects a bare root *on- or *om- plus the third-person singular ending, which has otherwise evolved into a copy of the preceding vowel in Finnish (but not most other Finnic languages). Võro om must reflect a root *om- with no ending, as Võro does not use the same third-person singular ending *-pi that the other Finnic languages do. What is striking about some of the forms is that they have final -m, which normally becomes -n in Finnic. It's possible that this change only applied in multisyllable words; Finnic has very few monosyllabic words that could have escaped analogical changes to endings, so that's hard to check.

So the question is where did this irregular form come from? Is a root *om- actually reconstructable? —CodeCat 20:23, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The Proto-Finnic form must have indeed been *om, apparently from earlier *omi, per the Veps interrogative form omik 'is there?'. The Finnish "emphatic" onpi is a later hypercorrection, likewise the dialectal forms olee, olevat.
Lauri Hakulinen suggests that *om(i) is perhaps originally from *oma 'own' (< *wo-ma?). It may in turn be an old infinitive or infinitive of the copula (much like the other 3rd person forms being originally participles), though this would require that PU *wolə- (or, *walə-, as most non-Finnic languages point to) is actually originally a derivative *wo-lə-.
The 3PP can be reconstructed as *omak or *omat (Veps oma, South Estonian ommaq). In Finnish/Karelian/Ingrian and, IIRC, Votic this has been contaminated with the regular 3PP -vat to produce ovat.
--Tropylium (talk) 21:39, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

mieszkanie, משכן[edit]

Can we get etymologies for these two terms? Kephir has expressed doubt that they are unrelated. DTLHS (talk) 16:44, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

מִשְׁכָּן (mishkán) is a native Hebrew word. I very much doubt that mieszkanie is related. Where/when did User:Kephir express this doubt? --WikiTiki89 19:48, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Wiktionary:Foreign_Word_of_the_Day/Focus_weeks#Same_meanings_in_different_languages DTLHS (talk) 20:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
@Kephir: The Hebrew word is from the Bible, i.e. before even Proto-Slavic existed. According to Słownik Etymologiczny Języka Polskiego, mieszkanie is from the verb mieszkać, which is from Proto-Slavic *mešьkati, from *měšati (> mieszać), although I am doubtful of the last step because I am unaware of any alternation of *e and . Although, Old East Slavic had мѣшкати (měškati), so maybe it is the reconstruction *mešьkati that is wrong. --WikiTiki89 20:19, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Length alternations were actually productive in Proto-Balto-Slavic and early Slavic. So the e~ě alternation is not unusual at all. There are also words with o~a, ь~i and ъ~y alternations. —CodeCat 20:48, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Why does Ancient Greek θυγάτηρ have penultimate stress?[edit]

The middle -a- in this word stems from a PIE laryngeal. But laryngeals were not semivowels, and could never be stressed, so it's odd that this syllable bears stress in Ancient Greek. Does anyone know why it does not have final stress like the PIE reconstruction does? —CodeCat 18:48, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

I would guess that it had the accent on the initial syllable at some point, but the "η" is a long vowel, and that forces the accent forward to the penult. If I read the L & S entry at Perseus correctly, there were, indeed, forms in the Iliad with an initial accent. Why there was this variation, and why it didn't keep the accent from PIE, I'll leave to someone who knows more than I do. Chuck Entz (talk) 00:57, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Or it's the PIE reconstruction that's wrong/incomplete. I did find one source that reconstructed an ablauting *dʰwégh₂tr̥ ~ *dʰugh₂tér- based on Anatolian evidence and corroborated by Greek. —CodeCat 01:00, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

dhe[edit]

Can anyone confirm or deny the accuracy of diff? (Note that it used "el" where it meant "sq".) Also diff while you're at it. - -sche (discuss) 22:00, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

The first looks like utter bullshit. I don't have a feel for the bullshit level of the second one. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:20, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Agree, the first is bs. The second seems likely. —Stephen (Talk) 11:05, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

rhyme[edit]

RFV of the etymology.

I was under the impression that this was derived from Old French via Middle English, with which the New Oxford American Dictionary on my computer and etymonline agree. The derivation from Old English in our etymology is certainly plausible, but what is it based on? Chuck Entz (talk) 02:16, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

This doesn't answer your question, but I'd reckon that it was probably more of a conflation than anything else. Rīm gave the word presence in the language, but its original meaning of "number" didn't last very long into the Modern English period. On the other hand, the current meaning of rhyme is well and sound, which begs the question: After the Norman Conquest, was "rhyme" constantly under the influence of its French cognate? Tharthan (talk) 02:38, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Some dictionaries, namely Century, have the Old English derivation; which I believe, they have it picking up some influence from the Old French word, and then through attrition loss of the older original sense. Leasnam (talk) 04:01, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

-wad[edit]

The entry for the suffix -wad contains no etymology, but the etymology of tightwad says, "From tight + wad. Unrelated to -wad." It is likely, though, that -wad is a back-formation from tightwad or something similar. OED suggests that the wad in both tightwad and dickwad / fuckwad come from the same headword, glossed as "a bundle" (inter alia). OED gives three other headwords for wad, all obsolete: a straight line (in surveying), black lead, or danger (attested only in the idiom "there lyeth a wad").

By the way, while I'm here, although "blow/shoot one's wad" is used to mean ejaculate, the phrase in its original usage is, I believe, related to "have shot one's bolt". In this case "wad" is may refer to part of a bullet cartridge, paralleling bolt "a short, stout arrow". Cnilep (talk) 05:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

  • The firearms etymology would make sense, inasmuch as muzzle-loading firearms would be loaded as a single shot, finishing with the wadding to hold everything in the barrel. Having shot one's wad, the firearm would require time-consuming reloading before being functional again. The analogy to male genitalia is pretty straightforward. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:21, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

moonrunes[edit]

Is this actually derived from Tolkien's work or something? I saw something on b.g.c that is connected to The Hobbit discussing "moon runes", an Elvish writing system. This seems plausible, and much better than the silly 'moon' + 'runes' etym we have atm. User: PalkiaX50 talk to meh 01:11, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

More to the point: does the current definition exist at all? Everything I see in Books and Groups looks like something from Tolkien's legendarium, with no trace of "An incomprehensible writing script. Usually used to refer to Chinese characters, Hiragana, Katakana or any other East Asian writing script." The one exception is a book called "Remembering the Kanji", but the word isn't visible to the preview, so I can only guess at the context. There seems to be some web usage, but not durably-archived. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:57, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I've seen it used ironically (i.e. the person wasn't actually a Japanophobe or w/e you would call them, or anything similar...almost the opposite in fact) at least once in the past on a Facebook "community page" not that can be taken as a source per CFI, unfortunately.
EDIT: Perhaps it might be citable in some online "CFI-worthy" source? User: PalkiaX50 talk to meh 10:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I thought "moon speak" came from an old anime that had a group of people on the moon that had their own language or something like that. I could be wrong, though. Tharthan (talk) 16:59, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Tolkien used "moon-letters" in The Hobbit as the name of a kind of hidden writing (p. 49 of the 1966 3rd ed.: "Moon-letters are rune-letters, but you cannot see them"), but some derivative works use moon-runes (e.g. Rateliffe 2011, The History of the Hobbit, "...the first draft of both the visible message on the map and what became the moon-runes passage..."). The "moonrunes = Japanese script" usage can be found on the Internets, often accompanied by one of two speculative etymologies: the Japanese comic Turn-A-Gundam features people living on the moon, ergo Japanese is "moonspeak" (e.g. Moonspeak at Know Your Meme); or less commonly the metaphorical distance between Japan and the US or UK makes "moonland" apt slang for Japan (e.g. Moonland at Urban Dictionary). I know of no reliable sources that support either etymology, though. Nor am I convinced that moonrunes is attested over a sufficient period to satisfy CFI. Cnilep (talk) 00:35, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

This discussion may have gotten lost with the change of months. I've taken it on myself to create moon rune; the singular form with the space seems to have as many or more attestations as the run-together form. I can only find the sense given at moonrunes going back a year or two, but older uses appear in fantasy novels and video games where the word means either "magic objects" or "writing" associated with the moon. Cnilep (talk) 01:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

October 2014[edit]

craic/crack wise/wisecrack/crack a joke[edit]

Is the word "crack" in the senses of "craic", "crack wise", "wisecrack" and "crack a joke" ultimately from Old English cracian? The reason that I need to know this is because I am putting together a wordbook of "Native English" (Germanic English and Latinates that were present in Old English. Also, "faith", because it probably was in Old English as well, just not attested.).

So, anyways...

Is "craic" ultimately from Old English cracian, or is it not? Tharthan (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is the same word from Old English cracian. Sense evolution: to crack>make a breaking sound>sharp sudden noise, snap>breaking news, explosive sound or report>chat, conversation>enjoyable conversation, fun. Leasnam (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh, good. That's great! Thanks much. Tharthan (talk) 20:59, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

faith[edit]

I have updated the etymology at faith to include the possibility that "faith" could also be from fay (faith) +‎ -th. Leasnam (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Latin Germānus[edit]

The etymology as currently given suggests a Celtic origin, which seems odd as the name for a Germanic tribal federation. I've read in a few different sources that the roots are instead Germanic, deriving from the roots of modern German Ger (spear, c.f. Old English cognate gār) + Mann (person, people), paralleling the derivation of Latin Alamannus, from the roots of modern German alle (all, every) + Mann (person, people).

Does anyone have more details about this? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:46, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

It's not that odd for a name for a people to originate from another people altogether. The Slavic name for the Romans is Germanic in origin, while the Germans took it from a Celtic tribe themselves.
As for the derivation, you have to consider sound changes. At the time period we're considering, the Germanic dialects were essentially still dialects of a common Germanic language, and most of the characteristic sound changes had not happened yet. This includes both z > r and ai > ei. So a compound of these two words would still have had the form *gaizamann- at the time. Romans would have likely borrowed this as *gaesomannī or similar. —CodeCat 19:21, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm familiar with the phenomenon of exonyms; perhaps the oddness that struck me is more that the Celtic roots seem speculative and uncertain, while the Germanic roots seem more straightforward. There's also the example of the similar term Alamannus imported from Germanic, raising the question of how and why the Romans would use an exonym in one case and an autonym in another.
Re: sound changes, do you have any information on when the changes took place? I did note this section of the article on Verner's law and further down the page, suggesting that the PIE /s/ → Proto-Germanic /z/ might have been earlier than previously thought. About the PrGer /z/ → West Germanic /r/ shift, I don't have a clear idea when that might have happened; if the /s/ → /z/ shift was earlier, it seems to open up the possibility that the northwest /z/ → /r/ shift might have been earlier too. It bears noting that West Germanic would be the right speech group for the tribes east of the Rhine, to which the moniker Germānus apparently applied. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 21:20, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
z > r appeared earliest in West Germanic, and took centuries to spread north, affecting West Norse before East Norse. I don't think there are any native texts that show unshifted z in West Germanic. On the other hand, the shift occurred not only after Gothic split off, but also when the continuum between North and West Germanic was much weaker. In particular it postdates the loss of final -z, which never happened in North Germanic and has slight dialectal variation even within West Germanic (English me versus German mir < *miz). This suggests a date centuries after the end of Proto-Germanic, towards the end of Roman imperial times. So we can be sure that all Germanic loans from early imperial times would have still had z. —CodeCat 21:42, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
You are forgetting that these changes happen slowly over a period of time. It is conceivable that some speakers already had /r/, while others even in the same dialect group, still retained /z/. --WikiTiki89 21:45, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Still, there are other features of Germānus which do not fit: like the vowel e, vowel ā, and the single n. Leasnam (talk) 06:29, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Folk-etymological influence from the homonymic germānus (sibling(ly)) does not seem impossible. --Tropylium (talk) 08:49, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Ebola[edit]

Can we provide any information about which language / language group the Ebola river got its name? DTLHS (talk) 00:27, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Ebola is a French corruption of the Ngbandi name Legbala, meaning white water. I found some online claims that it is Lingala for "black river", but no proof to back it up (despite 'ebale'=river). πr2 (talk • changes) 00:26, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Do you have a source for that? And could you add a Ngbandi translation to water? (we appear to have different codes for Northern and Southern Ngbandi). DTLHS (talk) 22:06, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
@DTLHS: Dunno if it passes muster, but here. It's also apparently in "Tanghe et Vangele 1939", and Tanghe's book from 1929, but I couldn't find a copy of either online. You might be able to find it in a library near you on worldcat if you really want to check. πr2 (talk • changes) 21:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
The ultimate source of the "black river" translation seems to be w:Peter Piot, who was part of the group that named the virus in the first place (see here). Chuck Entz (talk) 02:26, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz: which one sounds more likely to you? I'm not a professional etymologist or linguist. πr2 (talk • changes) 02:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Lingala seems unlikely to me because there's nothing related to the color black in the word (apparently -yindo / ndombe), which makes the rest of the etymology suspicious to me. But I'm really just guessing. DTLHS (talk) 05:35, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

puss[edit]

RFV of the etymology. I wrote that The 'vulva' sense is a clipping of pussy. Cnilep removed this, though according to my talk page, he/she doesn't dispute it (but removed it anyway. I don't understand either). Renard Migrant (talk) 15:52, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

I do dispute it. Both puss and pussy appear in the sense of "vulva" during the seventeenth century. Although puss seems to appear first, it's exceedingly likely that both were used in speech before either appeared in print. It is therefore impossible to know and irresponsible to say that one was the source of the other.
Copied from User talk:Renard Migrant
The slang usage of puss appears by 1630 (Thomas Dekker, The Honest Whore: "This Shee-cat will haue more liues then your last Pusse had"), around the same time as pussy (e.g. "Puss in a corner" in Thomas D'Urfey 1699, A Choice Collection of New Songs: "Johnny who many Times Pussey had fed"). It's not obvious that pussy is earlier. Indeed, on the basis of these poems puss seems to appear first, but it's not prudent to rely on a few appearances in print when dealing with slang. Forms of pussy had already been used to mean "woman" or "wife" before 1630 (e.g. Philip Stubbes 1583, The Anatomie of Abuses: "So he haue his pretie pussie to huggle withall, it forceth not"), so it's hard to know if one form is earlier than the other.
...
"Fed pussy pap", for example, is a double entendre for giving a cat porridge and for ejaculating in a vagina, and the poem's title uses puss. In other words, both puss and pussy were being used as slang terms for "vulva" in the seventeenth century. Likewise "your last puss" is a reference to prostitutes, suggesting that the word may have been used in the relevant sense even earlier than pussy was. It might be the case that puss is a clipped version of pussy, or it might be that the latter is an embellished form of the former (as is the case for the literal "cat" usage), or they may have developed more or less independently from the two words meaning "cat" (or "young woman"). It is, in my opinion, inappropriate to assert the clipping etymology on the basis of common knowledge – that is, without citing authoritative sources. Sauce for the gander: I'd better cite at least one secondary source for my assertion. See Gordon Williams (1994) A Dictionary of Sexual Language and Imagery in Shakespearean and Stuart Literature, in particular his discussions of D'Urfey at "pap" and at "whiskers", inter alia.
Cnilep (talk) 23:57, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I concede the point, I suppose someone else might want to chip in so I won't strike out the title. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:11, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Slavic *-ostь[edit]

I'm wondering where the suffix *-ostь came from and whether it has cognates outside Slavic. A possible candidate is Old Irish -acht, both could derive from a hypothetical PIE *-oḱ-t-. The difficulty is only that the Irish suffix is an ā-stem while Slavic has an i-stem. —CodeCat 01:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

According to some, from a compound PIE suffix *-s-ti- and cognate with Old Armenian -ստ (-st) and Hittite -ašti. The discussion should be on page 95 of Émile Benveniste, Hittite et indo-européen. Études comparatives, 1962, but I don't have access to this. --Vahag (talk) 10:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if it is also related to *-ьstvo and/or *-ьskъ. --WikiTiki89 10:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

hut[edit]

RFV of the etymology. Does anyone have proof that this word was taken from French, since it seems more likely that it was either a continuation of an earlier Germanic word, or borrowed from German at some time, as Grimm's dictionary states. There is a possible use in the early version of the Wycliffe Bible, but I think this might just be from the 2001 modern spelling version by T. Noble. 75.121.177.156 05:54, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, the t shows the High German Consonant Shift, so it can't be inherited from Old English or borrowed from any neighboring Germanic languages. That makes French a good candidate for the source, since it has a good bit of Frankish High German vocabulary. The only question is which stage of French, and when the borrowing occurred. This would seem to show that hotte was present in Middle English as a borrowing from Old French hute, which (according to this came from Old High German hutta. It's just a question of whether you believe that Middle English hotte changed into English hut, or was replaced by French hutte. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:41, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
The OED gives "First in 17th cent.; < French hutte (16–17th cent. D'Aubigné in Hatzfeld & Darmesteter, 1611 in Cotgrave), < Middle High German, German hütte [] ". I don't know exactly what the parenthetical note after the French means, but it seems that it could point to this "evidence" you are looking for. Otherwise, I also see no reason to why it could not have come directly from MHG (but the question is not what could have happened, but what did happen). --WikiTiki89 08:20, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

nv:Ásáí[edit]

Hi. I was wondering what the etymology of the Navajo word Ásáí (meaning "Arab(ic)") means. It seems to be the only translation of "Arab" that is not derived from "Arab" or عَرَّبَ. PiRSquared17 (talk) 20:04, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Pinging Stephen. He might know. --WikiTiki89 21:39, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Not sure. It seems like I heard that it is related to ásaaʼ (pot, kettle) + nominalizer , but I don’t remember where I heard that. —Stephen (Talk) 16:13, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

It seems like even Navajo speakers are not familiar with the word, Ásáí, and there is no other sources. I believe it is not too wrong for us to coin a neologism but it should not be a groundless random word. Do you think we should keep this word, Stephen? --JeongAhn (talk) 18:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

There are many words that have been repurposed during the past century or so (such as tééhoołtsódii‎), and since a lot of these refer to things that are not part of Diné culture and everyday life, and since there is so little Navajo literature in existence and since the BIA and other government agencies have worked hard for a long time to make sure that Navajos would not be taught to read or write their language, many people are simply not familiar with the terms. The NVwiki has been careful to avoid neologisms, and we remove them if we find them. For example, the list at w:nv:Kéyah_Daʼnaaznilígíí includes a number of words that we have been trying to translate into Navajo for a long time already ... some of them may never be answered in a way that we can accept. The situation with Navajo spelling and the Navajo lexicon is unnatural and not in a healthy state, due to the climate of political, religious, cultural and racial distaste for Native American peoples. Navajo is mainly used for farming and sheep husbandry and its use for topics of international interest, such as Arabs and Persians, is severely lacking. I encounter many Navajo words every day that cannot be found in any dictionary. Navajo language has a huge vocabulary, but no one has ever attempted to write down and define every word. Two things I am sure of: (1) Ásáí, though little used, is not a neologism, and (2) non-Navajos coming in and removing words that they cannot find in the limited printed resources would result in the exit of everyone involved with building the Navajo Wikipedia. There is a great deal of work still to be done by way of correcting misspellings and adding information, but the Navajo Wikipedia is stringently self-policing and linguistically conservative. —Stephen (Talk) 23:42, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

brujería[edit]

Discussion moved from Wiktionary:Tea room/2014/October#brujería.

The entry at brujería for etymology mentions a Celtic origin, but this word seems awfully similar to "Braucherei". Perhaps they are related, or it could have a Gothic etymology? Not sure about that, but it's worth discussing. --Shikku27316 (talk) 22:26, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

That presumes Braucherei is of Germanic origin, to start with. Is there any usage outside of the Pennsylvania Dutch? How do we know it isn't a borrowing from Portuguese or Spanish that's been changed to its current form by folk etymology? Chuck Entz (talk) 00:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
What does Braucherei mean? At any rate, it hardly seems contestable that brujería is from bruja, so the real question is about the origin of bruja. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 05:44, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
See w:Pow-wow (folk magic). It's basically Pennsylvania Dutch folk-magic, and its practitioners are called Brauchers. The obvious source would be Brauch or whatever the cognate is in Pennsylvania German- assuming it's not a loan-word altered by folk etymology. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:41, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Brauch goes back to Proto-Germanic *brūkaną and Proto-Indo-European *bʰruHg-, if that helps any. Chuck Entz (talk) 08:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Germanic /x/ and /k/ did not result in Spanish /x/. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:39, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

jaggery[edit]

The wiktionary article as of now states that it is derived from the Indo-Portuguese which in turn comes from the Kannada word ಶರ್ಕರೆ (śarkare). However, the etymtree for शर्करा states that the Indo-Portuguese derives from the Malayalam word ചക്കരാ (cakkarā). Which one of these is correct, if even either is? DerekWinters (talk) 04:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The Hobson-Jobson states that it derives from Malayalam as well. http://books.google.com/books?id=6Z5iAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA446&lpg=PA446&dq=jaggery+jagara&source=bl&ots=ktNamlxGrp&sig=C3Jvv6uZxBlgCLMI_hIp73WeOUE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DW1QVLOAE7eMsQTtjYHoBw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=jaggery%20jagara&f=false DerekWinters (talk) 04:30, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Dialecto Indo-Português de Ceylão says jagra is from “Prakrit” सकर (sâkar) or शकर (śâkar). — Ungoliant (falai) 04:43, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
That's impossible, as the Prakrits were spoken about a 1000 years (literally) prior to the Portuguese arrival to India. What would be reasonable would be some intermediates between the unidentified Prakrit and Portuguese. DerekWinters (talk) 04:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The author defines it as “Konkani, Marathi, Gujarati, Bengali, Sinhala, Hindustani, etc.”. — Ungoliant (falai) 04:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Could you present the link? Based on the literal definition of Prakrit, any descendant of Sanskrit would fit. However, the standard definition is only the direct descendants of Sanskrit, and not the descendants of those languages. सकर (sâkar) would probably only fit Hindi, Gujarati, or perhaps Konkani. Marathi has aspiration, a very distinctive feature in Indic languages. Bengali would be something else altogether, considering its highly divergent phonology. And Sinhala begins with an 'h'. DerekWinters (talk) 05:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I have the file, but I don’t remember where I got it from. The full text of the relevant bit is:
Jagra, jagra, assucar bru-

to. «E a este [assucar de pal-
meira] se chama na India iagra».
Ethiop. Or. Comm. T. em indo-
ingl. (jaggery, jagry, jagghe-
ry, jaggory).— Prak. सकर
ou शकर (sâkar ou śâkar),

etc., sansk. शर्करा (śarkarâ).
Jagra, jagra, raw sugar. «And this [raw palm sugar] is called iagra in India». Eastern Ethiopia, common [to all Indo-Portuguese dialects], also in Indo-English (jaggery, jagry, jagghery, jaggory).— Prakrit सकर or शकर (sâkar or śâkar), etc., Sanskrit शर्करा (śarkarâ). — Ungoliant (falai) 05:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Interesting. Sorry, but I am unsure of what to make of this. DerekWinters (talk) 05:25, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Germanic *þahsuz[edit]

Proto-Germanic *þahsuz (badger) claims to be derived from a PIE root meaning 'to weave, to build'. This is no doubt due to the great skill by which badgers weave their nests together from branches, grasses, and purloined garden hoses…

I.e. what? If this is not just an error, then whatever the semantic development here is thought to have been, there should be some comment on it. --Tropylium (talk) 05:54, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, it does also mean "build, construct" (the last syllable of architect comes from the same root), and badgers are known for building extensive underground burrows. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:48, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2014[edit]