Talk:まるぶ

@Nibiko Is this a real term? DerekWinters (talk) 02:02, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

(It seems to be included on this list. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 02:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC))

@Suzukaze-c: Oh interesting, would you classify the language on Hachijo a separate language from Standard Japanese? DerekWinters (talk) 21:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Never heard of it before TBH. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 22:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Given how divergent it is from standard Japanese, I would classify it as a separate language. Japanese Wikipedia says "Although it's included in the eastern Japanese dialects, due to the striking differences from mainland Japanese, there are also cases where it is considered to be a separate language ('Hachijo language')." It is classified as "definitely endangered". Here's a PDF for anyone who can read Japanese that wants to learn about the language. (@Eirikr This may be of interest to you) Nibiko (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

FWIW, also appears in the standard-JA monolingual KDJ with the kanji spelling 転ぶ. The marubu reading is described as a shift from marobu, “to roll; to fall over, to turn over”, basically deriving from 円, 丸 (maro, maru, “circle, ball, sphere”) + suffix ぶ (bu, attaches to nouns to form verbs with the meaning of “to seem like, to appear like, to behave like” the root noun; possibly cognate with 見る (miru, “to see”)). Given that the stem verb itself could manifest as either maru or maro, marubu could be a cognate that evolved in parallel with marobu, rather than a shift in reading.

Both readings marubu and marobu have appeared in mainland JA, just not with the sense of “to die”. That said, the shift in meaning is pretty clear to get to Hachijō “to die” from mainlaind “to fall over”. The marubu seems like it might have died out in mainland Japanese; neither Daijisen nor Daijirin include this reading. The KDJ cites a source for this reading from the Muromachi period, the 風姿花伝 (Fūshikaden), apparently a seven-volume treatise on Noh completed around 1402.

As far as this entry page goes, without further information on Hachijō than just the word lists on the page linked above, I'm inclined to suggest we rework the entry under a ==Japanese== header and use a label to identify this as Hachijō dialect. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 17:42, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Also, 1 may be of interest. DerekWinters (talk) 19:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. That JLect page is interesting, but their etymological musings are horribly loose. 参る (mairu, ancient mawiru) and 転ぶ (marobu, marubu) are themselves not related to each other, and it's baffling why the JLect editors would suggest they are. Nor are either of these related to 末 (matsu), which derives from Chinese. Then again, it's possible I'm simply misinterpreting their odd wording of "apparent to", a construction I'm not familiar with. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 16:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)