Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-European/h₁rewg-
Latest comment: 7 years ago by CodeCat in topic *g or *ǵ?
*g or *ǵ?
[edit]@CodeCat LIV, Martirosyan, and Beekes have *g, but De Vaan and Derksen have *ǵ. The Balto-Slavic seems to point to *g, but Derksen proposes the opposite. The reverse is the case for Armenian and *ǵ, but Martirosyan proposes *g. I'm so confused. —JohnC5 01:36, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Me too. —CodeCat 01:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan, any thoughts about this? Also, Beekes mentions another Auslaut form *h₁rewk- as the origin of several words meaning "to roar" (Old Church Slavonic рꙑкати (rykati), Old English rȳn < Proto-Germanic *rūhjaną, Old High German ruhōn < Proto-Germanic *ruhōną, Latin runcō). —JohnC5 02:17, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Slavic and Persian both have a stop. What is the evidence for ǵ? — ObſequiousNewt — Geſpꝛaͤch — Beÿtraͤge 02:37, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- As best I can tell, only Armenian. I'm just so baffled why De Vaan and Derksen disagree. —JohnC5 02:52, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- PIE velars are palatalized in Armenian after *-u. Compare օծանեմ (ōcanem), ածուխ (acux), լոյս (loys), օձ (ōj). So Armenian is cool with either *ǵ or *g. --Vahag (talk) 08:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- ...So there is no evidence for a palatal? —JohnC5 14:20, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Not from Armenian, no. What about Old Church Slavonic ръзати (rŭzati, “to neigh”) (→ Russian ржать (ržatʹ))? --Vahag (talk) 16:06, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Why the change in consonant? —CodeCat 16:13, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Which consonant do you mean? Anyway, the etymology given at ржать (ržatʹ) is probably wrong. ржать (ržatʹ) is rather inherited and ръзати (rŭzati) is Old East Slavic, not Church Slavonic. --Vahag (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- z > ž. —CodeCat 12:20, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Why the change in consonant? —CodeCat 16:13, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Not from Armenian, no. What about Old Church Slavonic ръзати (rŭzati, “to neigh”) (→ Russian ржать (ržatʹ))? --Vahag (talk) 16:06, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- ...So there is no evidence for a palatal? —JohnC5 14:20, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- PIE velars are palatalized in Armenian after *-u. Compare օծանեմ (ōcanem), ածուխ (acux), լոյս (loys), օձ (ōj). So Armenian is cool with either *ǵ or *g. --Vahag (talk) 08:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- As best I can tell, only Armenian. I'm just so baffled why De Vaan and Derksen disagree. —JohnC5 02:52, 26 August 2016 (UTC)