Talk:царь

Vocative

@Benwing2: Can you make it so that the presence of an accent in |voc=~ю́ would use the accentless stem? --WikiTiki89 22:00, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89 Sure, I'll get to that later tonight. Benwing2 (talk) 22:18, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89 Done. Benwing2 (talk) 05:53, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Colloquialism for Russian

I know what the usage note is trying to say, but one of the official titles of the Russian emperors was still царь and was fixed to places like Kazan, Astrakhan etc. One of the other titles not mentioned here is, of course, великий князь. 2001:1C02:1901:ED00:71A6:6529:B669:9E7B 08:04, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

The 1917 version of the full official title of Russian emperors started with «Мы, Императоръ и Самодержецъ Всероссійскій, Московскій, Кіевскій, Владимірскій, Новгородскій; Царь Казанскій, Царь Астраханскій, Царь Польскій, Царь Сибирскій […]», which might perhaps be translated to English as "We, Emperor and Autocrat of All Russias, Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir, and Novgorod, King of Kazan, King of Astrakhan, King of Poland, King of Siberia …". In particular, note that the Russian Emperor's title over Poland was always officially rendered as King of Poland in English or król Polski in Polish but as царь Польский in Russian; see the Wikipedia article about Congress Poland.
In any event, the full title was only used in decrees, proclamations, etc. issued in the emperor's name. In practice, the only part of the ruler's title that mattered was the fact that he was emperor over Russia. So when referring to the emperor in the third person, an educated person would have used the terms Его Императорское Величество/Е.И.В. (in very formal contexts), император, or государь. Tetromino (talk) 18:06, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

OCS declination

I don't know how to add declination template, so I leave here... --Mladifilozof (talk) 09:28, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Singular Dual Plural
-------------------
N царь царѭ цари
G царѭ царю царей
D царю царєма царємъ
A царѭ царѭ цари
I царемь царєма цари
L цари царю царєхъ
V царю царѭ цари

@Mladifilozof: Thank you. @Vorziblix? PUC – 09:33, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mladifilozof: Thanks, but I have to ask, where did you get this declension table? Some things are definitely not right: there is no й in Old Church Slavonic. And the declension as a whole is extremely odd and irregular; I don’t think a single other OCS noun declines this way. Dual nominative/accusative -ѭ, for instance, is not attested in any OCS declension pattern. And I’ve been able to find the genitive singular attested in texts as -ja and -ě (= -ja in Glagolitic), but never -ѭ. These are the endings of this word I’ve been able to find attested with confidence:

   S      D    P
N -ĭ          -i
A 
G -ja
L
D -ju/-evi  -emŭ
I -emŭ
V -ju

Based on all this, it looks to me like this is a regular soft o-stem noun:

Declension of царь (soft o-stem)

	singular	dual	plural
nominative	цар҄sь carʹsĭ	цар҄sꙗ carʹsja	цар҄sи carʹsi
genitive	цар҄sꙗ carʹsja	цар҄sю carʹsju	цар҄sь carʹsĭ
dative	цар҄sю, цар҄sеви carʹsju, carʹsevi	цар҄sема carʹsema	цар҄sемъ carʹsemŭ
accusative	цар҄sь, цар҄sꙗ carʹsĭ, carʹsja	цар҄sꙗ carʹsja	цар҄sѧ carʹsę
instrumental	цар҄sемь carʹsemĭ	цар҄sема carʹsema	цар҄sи carʹsi
locative	цар҄sи carʹsi	цар҄sю carʹsju	цар҄sихъ carʹsixŭ
vocative	цар҄sю carʹsju	цар҄sꙗ carʹsja	цар҄sи carʹsi

— Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 18:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I found it on some forum, but I was not able to judge if it is correct or not. So I thought it is good idea to leave it here. Thanks for your time! --Mladifilozof (talk) 18:31, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Since царь is an animate (personal) noun, IMO, the accusative should only be цар҄ꙗ, not царь. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:54, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Never mind, I see that {{cu-decl-noun-jo-m}} adds both forms and Old Church Slavonic grammar explains that animate declension difference is not obligatory, e.g. accusative sg can be both рабъ and раба. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)