Talk:悲観主義
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The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
I doubt that 主義 is a suffix as it's listed here and in a couple of other entries. What does everyone else think? Haplology 16:56, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Can't speak for Japanese, but it is a suffix in Chinese. The word in Mandarin is 悲觀主義. ---> Tooironic 00:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Are we verifying the existence of this term? --Mglovesfun (talk) 09:37, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, actually the existence of 主義 as a suffix instead of just as a noun. Haplology 13:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ya, 主義 shows up as a suffix for lots of things that are -isms in English, such as 悲観主義 (“pessimism”), 楽観主義 (“optimism”), 社会主義 (“socialism”), 共産主義 (“communism”), 資本主義 (“capitalism”), 不条理主義 (“absurdism”), 超現実主義 (“surrealism”), 実存主義 (“existentialism”), etc. etc. I believe this suffix is still productive in linguistic terms, meaning you can coin new words with it, such as 青空主義 (“blue sky-ism, open air-ism”), which I just pulled out of a hat and which currently generates over 1,300 hits at google:"青空主義"+の, or アイスクリーム食主義 (“ice cream eating-ism”) with 0 hits at google:"アイスクリーム食主義"+の but which is still wholly understandable by Japanese readers, albeit ridiculous. (NB: replace "ice cream" with other foods to generate some Google hits, such as google:"果実食主義"+の ("fruit eating-ism", maybe "fruitarianism"?) or google:"菜食主義"+の for "vegetarianism".) -- HTH, Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:49, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- Fair enough. In the dictionaries I have with POS listed, it is listed only as a noun, but if it meets the definition of a suffix, then a suffix it must be. Haplology 04:22, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Wiktionary editors might be being influenced by the fact that (deprecated template usage) -ism is a suffix in English. We've established above that it behaves like a suffix but I don't think we've proved your dictionaries wrong - not everything that quacks is a duck. Fugyoo 00:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oo, sorry if I gave the impression that I don't think 主義 is a noun -- I do agree with Hap's dictionaries (and my own) that list it as a noun. I just wanted to point out that it's also a suffix. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 00:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Wiktionary editors might be being influenced by the fact that (deprecated template usage) -ism is a suffix in English. We've established above that it behaves like a suffix but I don't think we've proved your dictionaries wrong - not everything that quacks is a duck. Fugyoo 00:30, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Fair enough. In the dictionaries I have with POS listed, it is listed only as a noun, but if it meets the definition of a suffix, then a suffix it must be. Haplology 04:22, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ya, 主義 shows up as a suffix for lots of things that are -isms in English, such as 悲観主義 (“pessimism”), 楽観主義 (“optimism”), 社会主義 (“socialism”), 共産主義 (“communism”), 資本主義 (“capitalism”), 不条理主義 (“absurdism”), 超現実主義 (“surrealism”), 実存主義 (“existentialism”), etc. etc. I believe this suffix is still productive in linguistic terms, meaning you can coin new words with it, such as 青空主義 (“blue sky-ism, open air-ism”), which I just pulled out of a hat and which currently generates over 1,300 hits at google:"青空主義"+の, or アイスクリーム食主義 (“ice cream eating-ism”) with 0 hits at google:"アイスクリーム食主義"+の but which is still wholly understandable by Japanese readers, albeit ridiculous. (NB: replace "ice cream" with other foods to generate some Google hits, such as google:"果実食主義"+の ("fruit eating-ism", maybe "fruitarianism"?) or google:"菜食主義"+の for "vegetarianism".) -- HTH, Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:49, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, actually the existence of 主義 as a suffix instead of just as a noun. Haplology 13:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Are we verifying the existence of this term? --Mglovesfun (talk) 09:37, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- That's right, 主義 is also a suffix, even if it's derived from a noun. The term exists and the etymology is right. It's used in all CJKV languages (Korean: 주의 (juui), only in Vietnamese (chủ nghĩa) it's a prefix, not suffix. --Anatoli 00:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, 主義 is definitely a suffix, as it is a translation of -ism. It has also become a noun just like ism, though. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- That's right, 主義 is also a suffix, even if it's derived from a noun. The term exists and the etymology is right. It's used in all CJKV languages (Korean: 주의 (juui), only in Vietnamese (chủ nghĩa) it's a prefix, not suffix. --Anatoli 00:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Resolved...? As kept...? Strike headers and close discussions, or make some note like "right then, we're keeping this", when you remove tags, please! Thank you! - -sche (discuss) 03:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)