Talk:address using the formal pronoun

RFV discussion: January–February 2019

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address using the formal pronoun

Unattested. Per utramque cavernam 10:25, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

I find it hard to grasp how an ordinary human would benefit from the entry. Lack of attestation would be evidence of lack of utility. DCDuring (talk) 16:02, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Is address using the formal pronoun synonymous with address using the polite form? (See persirati#Serbo-Croatian.) They don't seem so to me. DCDuring (talk) 16:05, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

The meaning is, in both cases, to use the V-form in a language that has a T–V distinction – which includes Serbo-Croatian.  --Lambiam 16:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I cannot find this precise collocation, but a sufficient number of cites for address with a formal pronoun:

• 1982, Peter S. Engelson and Robert S. Detrick (but the actual author of the quotation is Rafael L. Bras), “1982 James B. Macelwane Awards to Rafael Luis Bras, Donald W. Forsyth, and Steven C. Wofsy”, Eos 63:31, pp. 598 ff.:

  Early in my graduate student career we had a very serious conversation where he insisted I overcome my cultural habit of addressing him with a formal pronoun and by last name.

• 2009, Margareta Rebelos and Antonella Strambi, “Address Pronouns in Italian CMC Exchanges: A ‘Good Example’ for L2 Learners?”, Italica 86:1, pp. 59-79:

  As suggested by Dewaele (2004) with reference to French speakers, age and especially status and familiarity are fundamental factors in selecting address forms, with older and unfamiliar interlocutors being most often addressed with a formal pronoun.

• 2009, Roel Vismans,“Advanced Learners’ Use of Dutch Second Person Pronouns During Residence Abroad”, Journal of Germanic Linguistics 21:2, pp. 211-230:

  Someone in a superior position is addressed by someone in an inferior position with a formal pronoun (in Dutch u) but uses the informal pronoun (so the other forms in Dutch) to address the inferiors.

• 2014, Yves-Oliver Tauschwitz, “Pronominal address among Russian Germans in the Altai Krai – preliminary results of empirical data”, Linguistik online 64:2:

  The paramount importance of status could be seen in the address of family members and friends, as older interlocutors expect to be addressed with a formal pronoun of address, but respond asymmetrically with an informal one.

I also found uses of using a formal pronoun, but somehow only in combination with a different verb, such as speak (as in, “In Spanish, one might speak to one’s parents using a formal pronoun”).  --Lambiam 21:43, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

This is a stupid headword but you know RFV ain't the venue. Equinox ◑ 00:33, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

For the record, I moved the original content to address with the formal pronoun and recreated address using the formal pronoun as an alternative form, which can then be deleted via a failed RFV. The Lambiam quotations above suggest address with a formal pronoun would be another attested headword. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:06, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 23:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC)