Talk:given that
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Rfv-sense "although". --Barytonesis (talk) 12:10, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- Given that he lost four pints of blood, it's a miracle he's still alive. > adversative meaning (but not replaceable by although)
- Given that you didn't want to help me, don't be surprised if I refuse to lift a finger for you. > causal meaning (but not replaceable by because)
But these are just meaning effects, contextual effects; the neutral definition "in consideration of the fact that" is sufficient, and is in fact the only one that is truly substitutable. --Barytonesis (talk) 12:15, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- Is this a real RfV (looking for attestation) or a question about the definition?
- If there are systematically different synonyms suitable for different use cases (attestation-quality), I'd be inclined to have a separate definition for each cluster, even if there is overlap between the synonym sets. DCDuring (talk) 13:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- The two meanings in those examples are the same, and both mean because. In the first, it is the word miracle that reflects the condition, not the fact that he's still alive. Kiwima (talk) 19:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- You are probably right and all uses of given that seem to be straightforwardly of sense 4 of given#Adjective ("Assumed as fact or hypothesis"); Usage example: Given that we will get the resources, what do we want to achieve? DCDuring (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- In both sentences "given that" is easily replaceable with "considering", if that helps. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 23:10, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- You are probably right and all uses of given that seem to be straightforwardly of sense 4 of given#Adjective ("Assumed as fact or hypothesis"); Usage example: Given that we will get the resources, what do we want to achieve? DCDuring (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
- The two meanings in those examples are the same, and both mean because. In the first, it is the word miracle that reflects the condition, not the fact that he's still alive. Kiwima (talk) 19:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 04:25, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
Given is used as a preposition, and both it and given that are used as subordinating conjunctions. They operate in a similar manner to considering ( that), granted ( that), and a few others: given and the other words like it are free of the need to be attached to a particular subject, and so cannot be viewed as the verb in a participle clause; in other words, they are not unattached participles. --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:31, 22 August 2021 (UTC)