Talk:jachtgeweer
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Lingo Bingo Dingo in topic RFV discussion: January 2020–January 2021
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Dutch, RFV-sense of "shotgun". Obviously some shotguns are hunting rifles, but I don't know of this as a distinct sense and neither do some dictionaries. Several gun or hunting websites don't seem to recognise this meaning either. The Dutch Wikipedia article has it as a synonym of hagelgeweer, so it may be a Wikipedianism. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 13:56, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- There are two types of jachtgeweer: the hagelgeweer and the kogelgeweer.[1][2][3]. They obviously differ by the type of munition: shot or bullets. I think listing a hyponym as a sense of the more general term is incorrect. --Lambiam 20:51, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- I forgot that a shotgun wouldn't necessarily be a rifle in English. However, a shotgun is definitely considered a geweer in Dutch. What do you think of a definition equivalent to "geweer used for hunting"?
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 08:45, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- I forgot that a shotgun wouldn't necessarily be a rifle in English. However, a shotgun is definitely considered a geweer in Dutch. What do you think of a definition equivalent to "geweer used for hunting"?
- In case there should still be any doubt, here are three instances of a jachtgeweer firing bullets: [4], [5], [6]. --Lambiam 21:05, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- Three translations of shotgun as "jachtgeweer" (amongst other translations): [7] Morgengave (talk) 09:24, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
- Are any of those translations durable? The ones from Xerox and store.origin.com certainly don't seem like it.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 10:39, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
- Are any of those translations durable? The ones from Xerox and store.origin.com certainly don't seem like it.
- @Lingo Bingo Dingo, I'm rather confused by this one. Could you please close it? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:39, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Would the English term long gun help here? Vox Sciurorum (talk) 12:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
@Lambiam, Morgengave, Vox Sciurorum Would you agree with it if I replaced the two definitions by a single one: "long gun used for hunting, such as a hunting rifle or shotgun"? ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 14:10, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- No serious objections here. But are there other types of jachtgeweer than the two mentioned? The way it is formulated, it creates the impression that these two are just a small selection from a large variety of possibilities. Perhaps “long gun used for hunting, either a hunting rifle or shotgun“? --Lambiam 14:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think shotgun and rifle exhaust the category of hunting long guns. A shotgun can fire a slug, essentially a non-rifled bullet, rather than shot (“small metal balls used as ammunition”) but we still call it a shotgun. "A long gun used for hunting; a rifle or shotgun" sounds correct. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 14:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Lambiam, Vox Sciurorum Well, there are 18th-century results for jagtgeweer(en)/jachgeweeren, I strongly doubt these were shotguns and I'm not sure they were rifled; but I wouldn't mind a binary formulation as it would be accurate for the modern type of firearm and the first part of the definition would also encompass the ancient long-barrelled hunting guns anyway.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 16:50, 25 July 2020 (UTC)- A long gun used for hunting before the mid-19th century is probably a musket. Online translation of unknown reliability says either musket or geweer can be used for English musket. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 18:01, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Vox Sciurorum I suppose some late muskets would have been rifled? It's probably not very useful for the definition to include every type of weapon that was historically called geweer and could be used for hunting, because that will include a lot of unattested and marginally attested nuances. So I agree to the "either... or" phrasing. Dutch musket means "musket", geweer is a rather generic hypernym that can be used for many types of long-barrelled guns, including machine guns (and historically it was used for almost any type of weapon; from the top of my head I believe it became the generic term for long guns around the mid-nineteenth century).
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:48, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Vox Sciurorum I suppose some late muskets would have been rifled? It's probably not very useful for the definition to include every type of weapon that was historically called geweer and could be used for hunting, because that will include a lot of unattested and marginally attested nuances. So I agree to the "either... or" phrasing. Dutch musket means "musket", geweer is a rather generic hypernym that can be used for many types of long-barrelled guns, including machine guns (and historically it was used for almost any type of weapon; from the top of my head I believe it became the generic term for long guns around the mid-nineteenth century).
- A long gun used for hunting before the mid-19th century is probably a musket. Online translation of unknown reliability says either musket or geweer can be used for English musket. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 18:01, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Lambiam, Vox Sciurorum Well, there are 18th-century results for jagtgeweer(en)/jachgeweeren, I strongly doubt these were shotguns and I'm not sure they were rifled; but I wouldn't mind a binary formulation as it would be accurate for the modern type of firearm and the first part of the definition would also encompass the ancient long-barrelled hunting guns anyway.
- I think shotgun and rifle exhaust the category of hunting long guns. A shotgun can fire a slug, essentially a non-rifled bullet, rather than shot (“small metal balls used as ammunition”) but we still call it a shotgun. "A long gun used for hunting; a rifle or shotgun" sounds correct. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 14:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- No serious objections here. But are there other types of jachtgeweer than the two mentioned? The way it is formulated, it creates the impression that these two are just a small selection from a large variety of possibilities. Perhaps “long gun used for hunting, either a hunting rifle or shotgun“? --Lambiam 14:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- RFV resolved.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 09:48, 16 January 2021 (UTC)