Talk:mid
'mid: prep amid, among a group (literary) [15th century. Shortening of amid] Microsoft® Encarta® 2009
--Backinstadiums (talk) 19:01, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
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Use as preposition barely continues past Middle English to my knowledge; no reason to have a Modern English entry. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 14:24, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- Someone else will have to try and dig out uses, but if it has three past the standard 1500 CE line between Middle English and English, then that's enough reason to have a Modern English entry.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:55, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- I don't believe there's three post-1500 attestations, hence why I made the RFV. Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that, though. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 08:52, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- I looked at the quotations the Middle English Dictionary has and then tried to find similar collocations in modern English, to almost no avail. I tried "mid God", "(is|are|was|were|be|have|has|had) mid (him|us)", "God (is|was) mid", "deal mid" (which turns up a scanno of "deal wid", variant of "deal with"), "mid child", "mid this word", "well mid God", "mid flesh and", "accord(s|ed) mid", "well mid all", "mid eyes", "mid English", "speak mid", and "fill(ed) mid (a|the)", but all I found were reprints of Middle or Old English texts - apart from two citations which, although seemingly the right sense, represent dialectal speech and may have a different etymology (one looks like it represents a German accent and so was probably influenced by German mit, the intended dialect/accent of the other is unclear). - -sche (discuss) 08:56, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- I've cited the German-derived preposition, which I've added to the end of the entry like this. I moved most of the etymological content for the "native English" preposition to the Middle English section. I kept a reference to the native preposition (and its surviving derivatives, hopefully solving the question of where to mention them) in the etymology section of the German-derived preposition. IMO the first etymology section (the "native" preposition meaning "with") can be removed unless it can be cited (but, as the OED says, it seems to have died out before 1400). - -sche (discuss) 20:33, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- Someone bolder than me might even claim the use of mid instead of mit in the "German-accented English" examples was "possibly influenced by" the old [Middle] English preposition (e.g. perhaps to make the representations of accented speech more intelligible by using a "native" word), but given that the native word was long dead by that time and the same texts also interchange initial ps and bs where standard German does no such thing, I would not read that into the choice of -d vs -t (I wouldn't even assume the authors were referencing the fact that final -d and -t are homophonous). (AFAICT neither Plautdietsch nor Dutch, which have met, nor Pennsylvania German nor Yiddish, which have mit, are the source of a final -d.) - -sche (discuss) 06:16, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
- I've cited the German-derived preposition, which I've added to the end of the entry like this. I moved most of the etymological content for the "native English" preposition to the Middle English section. I kept a reference to the native preposition (and its surviving derivatives, hopefully solving the question of where to mention them) in the etymology section of the German-derived preposition. IMO the first etymology section (the "native" preposition meaning "with") can be removed unless it can be cited (but, as the OED says, it seems to have died out before 1400). - -sche (discuss) 20:33, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
- RFV-failed. I updated the other entries I could find linking hither to instead link to Middle English, and kept a mention of the three modern English compound words using this (Middle English) element in the etymology section of the different, German-derived "with" sense. - -sche (discuss) 09:18, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
"German Low German"[edit]
I don't know how to fix it, but this page calls Low German "German Low German." If this could be fixed, that'd be nice. NotFromMarkkleeberg (talk) 20:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)