Talk:objectsona

RFV discussion: December 2022–February 2023

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objectsona

— SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 09:25, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

It's easy enough to find ample use in the wild, e.g. this tag on DeviantArt, and it's clear from the art style that the definition we have is exactly spot-on.

But I mean .... this is where I get uncomfortable, because it's going to be a thousand times harder to find cites for this in the traditional media we consider durably archived.

Even if it's against our tradition I say this ought to count for something since each instance of the word objectsona in a tag is a use-example, and there are hundreds of them just on DeviantArt alone. Perhaps thousands, but I only clicked through about a dozen screens of 20 images each. —Soap— 11:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Although it's a bit eyeroll-worthy it does have a significant amount of online traction—the query "site:twitter.com "objectsona"" gets 2.2k results on Google, for example (including quite a few legitimate prose uses, having scanned over them down to page 17). Given that it's the sort of term that's inherently unlikely to be attestable otherwise and it's not derogatory, I'd be inclined to allow Twitter or a selection of social media in this case. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 11:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

If this is kept, can the definition be reworded such that it conveys meaning to readers not familiar with the terms “object alter-ego” and “object show community”?  --Lambiam 13:38, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

We're working on it, yes. I'll try to think of better wording later, but I think the definition should mention the original cartoon that popularized the art style, which was called Battle for Dream Island. At some point the props for eyes, arms, etc were either released to the public, or reverse-engineered, such that people could make thousands of fan characters that looked just as authentic as the originals. Now it may be the case that the original cartoon has been largely forgotten, as I've always just called this "Dream Island style" artwork, and hadnt realized it had a whole new name now. —Soap— 13:51, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Having thought about it more, I like the short and simple definition we have now. If I want to mention Dream Island, the best place to do is on the object show entry, not objectsona. (I didnt think to even check if object show existed earlier.) —Soap— 17:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Short, simple, and – at least to me – still rather incomprehensible. Which sense of persona is this? Someone presenting themselves to the world as an inanimate teapot should avoid to be seen as speaking, or this will immediately give away they are not inanimate (like the teapot here, which not only speaks but also can breathe and see) and very likely that they are not even a teapot.  --Lambiam 09:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I mean thats a minor point we can still work out .... I'd say animated and inanimate are not quite antonyms, because the -d indicates that an object has been brought to life, not that it has life in and of itself. Therefore a walking talking bar of soap .... that is, an animated bar of soap .... is still an inanimate object. So I think the definition is correct as it is, but if it's confusing people we could find other words.

As regarding persona, I also think that the definition explains it well, since the first half of the definition is essentially defining the specific sense of persona meant here. Which is better explained as -sona perhaps, but it would be awkward to say "a -sona" ... I think persona is the term used when the concept needs to be expressed by itself. —Soap— 10:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

So is this the same as sense 3 of avatar?  --Lambiam 09:57, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I think it can be encompassed by that definition of avatar, but social media platforms seem to stick with certain words, so having two words that mean almost the same thing is no contradiction. I apologize, though, as I've realized I'm not actually that knowledgeable about this subject and cant say much more. —Soap— 19:44, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Put another way, I think what we're saying in the listing for avatar is that that term is mostly used in "second life" type of environments whereas persona and -sona are more widespread. And some platforms just say profile picture. —Soap— 19:48, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Added Twitter citations going back to 2013. The only question is whether we will accept them. Ioaxxere (talk) 16:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I think the citations are dumb and Twitter is dumb. (ok boomer.) But it's obviously a real [word redacted] thing. I would certainly support keeping the word based on these citations. Equinox ◑ 12:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Keep. Ioaxxere (talk) 02:49, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

RFV Passed (2-0). Ioaxxere (talk) 02:49, 9 February 2023 (UTC)