Talk:reithine

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RFV discussion: October 2016–May 2017[edit]

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

@Angr Seems only attested in Middle Irish? Old Irish roithinech implies its existence in some form. —CodeCat 19:13, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Switched to Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Angr: Could you please figure out what language the rest of these ought to be? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Metaknowledge: I had forgotten about these. I'll see what I can do. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 05:56, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

boga[edit]

@Angr Is this Old Irish? I don't know of any declension ending in -a, and given what you said about recognising Middle Irish forms (-a vs -ae or -ai), that suggests this is later. —CodeCat 19:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Switched to Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:17, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

brágae[edit]

This was formerly at brága, but I moved it per a hint at DIL. However, I don't know if the second meaning is that old. —CodeCat 19:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The "neck" meaning is spelled bráge in Old Irish and brága in Middle Irish. The "captive" meaning doesn't occur until Middle Irish and so is spelled only brága. AFAICT the spelling brágae isn't actually attested; it's just DIL's normalization. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:42, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Moved back to brága and labeled Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:05, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Breta[edit]

Another form with -a. Middle Irish? —CodeCat 19:38, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:19, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

calma[edit]

Middle Irish? —CodeCat 19:41, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

cana[edit]

Middle Irish? The form cano is also given, which I presume is earlier. But the actual inflection is rather obscure. —CodeCat 19:44, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:30, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

ciúine[edit]

DIL has only one quote on this, without any apparent dating. It does say this is the same as ciúnas, but whether that means it's the same noun or merely a synonym, I have no idea. —CodeCat 19:46, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably Middle Irish, but DIL's entry is so poor in information that I decided to list it only as Modern Irish, since it definitely exists then. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:06, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

comalta, derbchomalta[edit]

Seems Middle Irish. The etymology is odd, as it uses a (presumably) earlier form that still has the -e. —CodeCat 19:52, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Middle Irish, though the dative comaltu is attested in Old Irish. The nominative of it is presumably comaltae. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:30, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

data[edit]

I'm a bit unclear on this one. DIL cites from Togail Bruidne Dá Derga which Wikipedia says is Old and Middle Irish, but that doesn't tell me much about this particular cite. —CodeCat 19:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Middle Irish since it's at least that late, even if it might be earlier too. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:48, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ecla[edit]

Again, -a suggests Middle Irish, especially as a iā-stem abstract derivative of an adjective. —CodeCat 20:01, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Middle Irish. The Old Irish accusative/dative eclai is attested; its nominative is presumably eclae. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:13, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

forbba[edit]

Probably Middle Irish again? —CodeCat 20:13, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes; from Old Irish forbae. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:25, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

gilla[edit]

I think this may already be Old Irish, especially given the cite gilldæ (= gildae?). —CodeCat 20:21, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty sure it's OIr. The quote from DIL "Dauid in gille dána" is in the source (Liber Hymnorum Vol.1 p.26 l.12) "Dauid in gilla dána". The manuscript it's sourced from is Trinity MS 1441 (formerly E.4.2.), which is dated to the late 11C (and doesn't, alas, appear to be up on Irish Text On Screen to check), but the actual text looks like (late) OIr to me:
Snaidsi·um Moisi deg-tuisech ro·n·snaid tria rubrum maire,
Iesu, Aaron macc Amra, Dauid in gilla dána.
--Catsidhe (verba, facta) 04:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to Middle Irish. I'm not seeing anything unambiguously Old Irish. 11th century is already Middle Irish (which starts earlier than Middle English does). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

gúala[edit]

I think this is probably Old Irish, but then the lemma form would be gúalae wouldn't it? —CodeCat 20:28, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@CodeCat: Changed to Middle Irish. Since it's a feminine n-stem, I think the Old Irish lemma form would be *gúalu. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

literda[edit]

—CodeCat 20:38, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:10, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

peta, petta[edit]

—CodeCat 20:42, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Saxa[edit]

I see attestations of Saxae and Saxu in DIL, which may be the original nominative singular form. —CodeCat 20:49, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced even they are true Old Irish. Switched to Middle Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:15, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Metaknowledge: These are all finished now. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:15, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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