Talk:slave

Various

I think this is also a French word meaning "Slavic", but only because of Tschaikovsky's Marche Slave. Can any French speakers verify this? -- Ortonmc 22:55, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I stopped short of proposing this theory at "French Wiktionary Talk:Slave" when I noticed that "Babelfish" claims the French phrase «Quelle est la marche slave?» corresponds to the English phrase "Which is Slavic walk?". -- Pat LaVarre 2 Sep 2004

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The slave in the czech translation should be "otrok". "robota" is the forced labour in serfdom. --213.194.218.85 18:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The latin for slave is servus... well according to my latin and greek teachers... I'm editing it Wikisquared 18:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I have a question how the Latin term, medieval I thought, sclavus has gotten the meaning of slave in the modern sense? (didnt it refer to the Slavs?) Mallerd 19:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

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Suggest this definition:

'A person who is forced to perform sexual acts or other acts on a regular or continuing basis against their will.'

be removed, perhaps given a "see also" entry? The above is more correctly the specific definition of a 'sex slave', not a slave in general.

AnonTech 08:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Synonym

Doesn't it have a pejorative synonym that sounds something like raisin or racing? It may begin with an 'r' or less likely with an 'l'. I've heard it in CSI New York but in Hungarian, just there was something that needed to be in English, so the first vowel is most likely /eɪ/, but can also be /ɛ/, /æ/ or /e/. Ferike333 20:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Bad code

At the very beginning of the slave article, there is this code: {|border=0 width=75%|valign=top width=75%|. Obviously it is intended to affect only the first table, but in fact it affects the entire article. I can’t fix it. —Stephen 10:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

etymology

There seems to be a word or comma missing from this sentence in the etymology: "...connect them to a designation of the territory relevant to a linguistic systemic stage which is prior to both the result “slave”." - -sche (discuss) 03:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

• I have removed the following bit from the etymology because it conflicts with the derivation the other sources give. - -sche (discuss) 06:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  "The word may also be derived from Latin servus (“servant”), which was in use before Middle Ages."

ETYMOLOGY

"Slav" means in Yugoslavian - "glory"; yougo-slav means "south-glory"! Slavonic culture has never known slavery - "civilized " word that was in touch with biblical indoctrination practicied slavery because "almighty god" commanded HOW TO treat slaves in the Old Testament - 3 500 years ago (copies of Mesopotamian and Egyptian writing that all allowed slavery in the name of "gods"). Therefore, "barbaric" hordes were not barbaric at all - the "civilized " Greeks, Romains... were really barbaric. In slavonic cultures the world SLAV is a beautiful word. Where are real philology experts?

Little condescending as well as POV pushing, don't you think? Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 04:30, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

We're not talking about Slavic usage. We're talking about the "barbaric" Greeks and Romans who were doing the enslaving, and what words they used to talk about slavery. As for the rest of what you said: I'm sure it's true that Yugoslavians take out the trash and brush their teeth in ways too marvelous for mortals to comprehend, and save on boat fare by crossing the Adriatic on foot, but we'd rather not discuss that here: this is a dictionary, not a soapbox. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

For the record, the author is confusing the Slavic autonym with the Serbo-Croatian ("Yugoslavian") word for glory, slava, which is a separate derivation from the Indo-European lengthened grade *ḱlēws, as opposed to *ḱlewos > Slavic slovo "word" > Slověninъ "Slav". At any case, slav in Yugoslav has nothing to do with glory. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:57, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I have removed that rubbish from the etymology section. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September–October 2012

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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slave

Rfv-sense: An information worker who has signed a non-compete clause in return for employment.

Added in diff. The same edit linked to Beware 'zombie' clauses, eet.com, 8/2/2004 article for reference. The article contains e.g. this: "The slave clause says, 'You can't work for any rival for X years.'" and "Noncompete agreements — the ones Cooley calls slave clauses — are generally unenforceable under California law but are enforceable to varying degrees in other states, Snyder said."

Absent in other dictionaries. Suspectly overspecific. --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:05, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm getting a lot in gbooks comparing non-compete contracts to slavery, but this seems to be by way of analogy rather than an actual word for the party to the contract. In any case, I agree "information worker" is over specific. SpinningSpark 06:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 05:59, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Etymology, proof and citations

Hey people! Slavs and slaves are not related! Get over it! In slovic languages the slovene are written with o and not with a, except slavonia. Get it! Slowyane, Slovene, fro Slovo - Word.

Where are the exact references, that slovenic tribes were captured in the middle ages? Show me!

Which european nations were not captured, either by arabs, by romans or norsemen?? Tell me! (Actually yes, there some lucky ones, maybe yes)

Average roman slave was a gaul. The germans had Wends and Saxons. Arabs captured Spaniards and yeah maybe slovenic people too. Vikings captured pretty much everyone.

In Kluges book it is clearly said that slovenic ethnonym is not to be mixed up with the greek word for "skuleúō, “to get the spoils of war”". Read it!

So whats the whole point of this racist disinformation?

slave away

Why is slave away added? isn't it sum of parts? --Backinstadiums (talk) 13:09, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Etymology. Once again.

Prior to deleting or editing the description on evolution of the contemporary academic version of the word origin from Byzantine Greek σκυλεύω [skyleúō] / σκυλάω [skyláō], please do read the following. So as to avoid any misinterpretations of what F. Kluge and G. Köbler Etymological Dictionaries actually say, here are full quotes from sources and their translation to English (as verbatim as I can). Links to the sources are provided.

1.

Friedrich Kluge (1899) Etymologisches Wörterbuch Der Deutschen Sprache, 6 edition, Strassburg: Trübner, Sklave, page 366:

Sklave M. spätmhd. slave sklave M. 'Sklave' eigtl. 'kriegsgefangener Sklave': in gleicher Beteutung auch sonst in neueren germ. und roman. Sprachen; vgl. ndl. slaaf, engl. slave, frz. esclave, ital. schiavo. Zu grunde liegt die byzantinische Bezeichnung der Südslaven als 'Εσκλαβηνοί, die in Italien im 8./9. Jahrh. die Bedeutung 'Sklave' (als Sclavus) annahm, die dann über Italien nach Deutschland wanderte (die eigtl. Benennung der Slaven in war im Mittelalter Wenden - Winden); die Bezeichnung Sklaven kann nicht vom slav. Osten ausgegangen sein, weil keine westliche slav. Völkerschaft sich je Sklave genannt hat (aslov. Slověninŭ). Vgl. Baist, Zschrft. f. frz. Spr. XIII 190.

ENG: Sklave Masculine Late Middle High German slave sklave Masculine 'Sklave' actually 'prisoner of war Slave': with the same meaning in modern German and Roman Languages; compare Dutch slaaf, English slave, French esclave, Italian schiavo. It is based on the Byzantine designation of the Southern Slavs as 'Εσκλαβηνοί, which in Italy in the 8th/9th Century took on the meaning 'Slave' (as Sclavus) and then migrated via Italy to Germany (the actual naming of the Slavs in Middle Ages was Wenden - Winden); the term Slave cannot derive from the Slavic East, because no western Slavic people called themselves Slav (Old Slavic Slověninŭ). See Baist, Zschrft. f. frz. Spr. XIII 190.

2.

Friedrich Kluge (1989) Elmar Seebold, editor, Etymologisches Wörterbuch Der Deutschen Sprache, 22 edition, Berlin - New York: De Gruyter, →ISBN, Sklave, page 676:

Sklave m. Spmhd. sklafe, slave. Aus ml. sclavus, das über *scylavus zu gr. skyleúo, skyláō 'ich mache Kriegsbeute’ (zu gr. skỹlon n. 'Kriegsbeute’) gehört. Damit fiel die griechische Bezeichnung der Slaven, mgr. Sklabēnoi, später zusammen, was zu verfehlten etymologischen Vermutungen Anlaß gab.
G. Korth Glotta 48 (1970), 145-153.

ENG: Sklave masculine Late Middle High German sklafe, slave. From medieval latin sclavus, which via *scylavus belongs to greek skyleúo, skyláō 'I make Booty / spoils of war' (from greek skỹlon neuter 'Booty / spoils of war'). This was the Greek name of the Slavs, middle greek Sklabēnoi, later together, giving rise to erroneous etymological assumptions.
G. Korth Glotta 48 (1970), 145-153.

3.

Gerhard Köbler (1995) Deutsches Etymologisches Rechtswörterbuch, Tübingen: Mohr, →ISBN, Sklave, page 371:

Sklave, M., "Sklave, Leibeigener", spätmhd. sklafe, slave, M., "Sklave", spätes 13. Jh. (um 1275) Lw. mlat. sclavus (817), scylavus, M., "Sklave, Beute", zu gr. skyleuein, skylan, V., "erbeuten"?, zu gr. skylon, N., "Beute"?, beeinflußt von mgr. sklabenoi, M. Pl., "Sklaven"?

ENG: Sklave , Masculine, "Slave, Serf", Late Middle High German sklafe, slave, Masculine, "Slave", late 13th Century (around 1275) Loanword medieval latin sclavus (817), scylavus, Masculine, "Slave, Booty", in Greek skyleuein, skylan, Reference "capture"?, in Greek skylon, Neuter "Booty"?, influenced by middle greek sklabenoi, Masculine Plural, "Slaves"?

--Fuzzy Barsik (talk) 23:26, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Two questions to @Mahagaja:

1. Please explain, why did you remove the notice that the view on the word 'slave' derivation from 'Slav' was disputed since XIX, while F. Kluge 6th ed. (1899) says the opposite?

2. Please explain, why did you state that F. Kluge 22 th ed. (1989) and G. Köbler (1995) 'tentatively' say just about some influence of Byzantine Greek σκυλεύω [skyleúō] / σκυλάω [skyláō], while F. Kluge 22th ed. (1989) expresses that clearly?

Thanks in advance. Fuzzy Barsik (talk) 00:00, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm answering at Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2022/August#slave to encourage a wider discussion. —Mahāgaja · talk 07:16, 5 August 2022 (UTC)