Talk:traditional marriage

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See Talk:same-sex marriage. - -sche (discuss) 21:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Deletion discussion[edit]

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traditional marriage[edit]

RFV-sense "(in some jurisdictions, specifically) A polygamous union." If attested it should be a subsense (logically speaking). - -sche (discuss) 20:36, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

"The marriage practises and customs of a particular culture." is SOP. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:00, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I agree, but it was kept at RFD for lack of consensus (see Talk:same-sex marriage). - -sche (discuss) 21:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Two cites have been added. The first doesn't use the term, so I'm not sure of its relevance. The second cite is "A great deal has been written about polygamy as a traditional marriage system in all Africa of which Iboland is a part". I don't think this is an example of definition 3, but of definition 2 (And definition 2 strikes me as the non-idiomatic meaning, as Mglovesfun says). Furius (talk) 01:56, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Besides which, can we be sure that it's traditional marriage system and not traditional marriage system?Chuck Entz (talk) 02:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
This term is quite dependent on context: I'm sure there are jurisdictions where a traditional marriage involves exchange of livestock- do we want to even try capturing all of that variation? Chuck Entz (talk) 02:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Separate question: why is "The marriage practises and customs of a particular culture." not rolled into the &lit?


This is an RfV.
  1. There are only two cites.
  2. To me the cites look as if they support the SoP &lit.
ergo: Failed. If someone wants to delete one or more other senses, let them go put in an RfV or RfD if they think it is worth it.
In addition, there are specific logical requirements for there to be two definitions for closely related senses. If B is a subset of A and the definition covers A, there is not a good reason to have a separate sense for B. It is only when B is not a subset of A (ie it is either disjoint or overlapping) that we need a separate sense. In this case B (polygamous marriages in societies in which such are traditional) seems to me to be a subset of A (SoP definition). All Bs are As. An "especially" is not appropriate. We don't have "including" lists as they could be endless. If there were a distinct term, that would belong under Hyponyms. DCDuring TALK 19:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the unverified sense accordingly, and left the citations in support of the next definition up. bd2412 T 19:50, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

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Rfd-sense: The marriage practices and customs of a particular culture.

The sense that previously passed RFD is the third one, a marriage between a man and a woman (as opposed to a same-sex marriage). This one was added later and is just plain SoP in every thinkable way. -- Liliana 20:30, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I would agree with deleting it, but the third sense needs a context tag. It doesn't generally have that meaning, but only in certain customs/cultures where such marriages are considered traditional. In fact I've only ever seen it used concerning the US, so maybe a (US) tag? —CodeCat 20:35, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Delete the contested sense, as it is clearly covered by the first definition.--Dmol (talk) 20:59, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Delete, SoP (i.e., &lit). bd2412 T 21:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Delete, SoP, included in &lit. DCDuring TALK 21:38, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 21:44, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Sense deleted. bd2412 T 16:57, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

RFC discussion: December 2012[edit]

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There is also an RfV for the second sense.

  1. The third definition seems to suggest a four-way marriage, but must have been intended to mean something like "Marriage between a consenting man and a consenting woman, to the exclusion of others."
  2. The first definition seems like it needs a context of "anthropology" and strikes me as not the most common sense. The most common sense would be something like the third reworded.
  3. The only OneLook ref besides WP to have this is a religious glossary. As part of their entry they have a sentence which suggests a usage note: "The term is typically used by individuals and groups opposed to same-sex marriage who wish to keep marriage as a special privilege offered only to opposite-sex couples." This seems accurate enough, though one might quibble with "typically". I would expect such advocates to not use traditional marriage, except in an SoP way, "marriage as it has most commonly and traditionally existed in our culture". I have added {{&lit|traditional|marriage}} with this thought in mind. DCDuring TALK 23:20, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I have added some cites. Pass a Method (talk) 23:33, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but it would help if they conformed to format, eg, date, author, bold for the headword, etc. DCDuring TALK 00:48, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
You know im not that good at referencing and use the style i used at wikipedia. Pass a Method (talk) 01:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)