User talk:4pq1injbok

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Thank you for help with Navajo. Are you interested in this language, and interested to contribute further? It appears that you have good sources for the language. 05:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm interested in a lot of languages, really, but I'm the epitome of an amateur, and I've only read a couple short pieces on Navajo, that article of Sapir's being one of them. I could add a few more words and etymologies from it, if they're not there already, but I'm not well placed to be a regular contributor for Navajo. 4pq1injbok 05:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, please do. The categories already exist, thanks to the work of a few of us over the past year or so. Interestingly, the dog/horse issue has been discussed in recent days here. 05:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah, neat.
A first procedural question. I've just added to adeeʼ the extra senses 'ladle' and 'gourd' that Sapir gives for it. (Is the latter still current, by the way? I see we have ndilkal.) But for these words the whole form adeeʼ is the stem, whereas for 'horn' it's indefinite possessor a- + stem -deeʼ. How are you marking that distinction? 4pq1injbok 16:21, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I have just asked the main contributor and administrator at nv:WP and s/he should provide input shortly. 19:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

In general, I am not interested in contributing at wiktionary, I just occasionally comment on the most blatant errors when they bug me too much (I discuss these issues in more depth with Stephen because he has a better understanding of Navajo).
Having said that, the issue of ndilkal vs. adeeʼ is easy: ndikal is the plant. The fruit, when dried and used as a spoon or other utensil, is called adeeʼ. So adeeʼ should be in the list for dried and hardened shell of a gourd fruit. That's because spoons were originally made of (deer's) horn, and the word, in the meaning of "spoon" was kept even as spoons were later made of dried ndilkal fruit. Since it is no longer a deer's horn, it becomes independent in that meaning and grammatically loses its inalienable status: bįįh bideeʼ deer's horn, beʼadeeʼ his spoon. The latter could be added as possessed form to point 2 in the list which should also contain "gourd":
2.ladle, dipper, spoon, gourd (possessed form beʼadeeʼ)
(Fictional pop-quiz for you guys: a group of anthropologists visits Papua New Guinea and meets a head-hunter who proudly presents his favorite head. Say "my head" in Navajo.) Seb az86556 21:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

shitsiiʼ? 22:10, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

That's the one on your neck. I meant the headhunter who says "this is my head"... Seb az86556 22:22, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

That is very difficult! I don't think we're going to be able to figure it out. 22:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Did you mean ndilkal (not ndikal) for the gourd plant? 22:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

yes, ndilkal, fast typing. Seb az86556 22:22, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Oh, hey, Navajo party on my talk page. Yeah, I wanted to add that about the horn spoons and the alienability and so on once I'd figured out how to denote the difference. (But probably tomorrow at this rate.)
As for "my (alienable) head", would it be shiʼatsiiʼ? 4pq1injbok 05:06, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I did the best I could with the entry--see how it looks. Looking forward to working on more of them. Regarding the heads, the answer is here--you were very close! 05:29, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

(Sorry for the couple days away, I've been behind tor.) adeeʼ looks quite good to me now. 4pq1injbok 17:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


WT:ELE#Example sentences says that example sentences shouldn't contain links. {{usex}} used to call on {{delink}} but it caused problems because some code was getting left behind. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed the existence {{usex}} shortly after making that change. I had embarked on fixing it up but you seem to know better what you're doing; have at it. 4pq1injbok (talk) 20:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)


On 30 November you modified an anonymous edit at the article former, which ought probably to be completely undone. I can't speak English very well, but "the former" does not seem to be a "noun", but just a pronoun, and the "formers" does not seem to be possible. I wonder if you might check again. Thank you very much.--Jeanambr (talk) 22:45, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Good catch. Before that IP edit it had been listed as an adjective, I'll put it back that way. 4pq1injbok (talk) 04:31, 13 December 2016 (UTC)


Yes, it's common in linguistics. From The Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar: "But whereas in a syntactic definition -ed and -en are variants (i.e. allomorphs) of the same (abstract) past participle morpheme, in a phonological definition -ed and -en are different morphemes." Equinox 16:00, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Good to know, I'll stick that in. I don't suppose it's worth adding an actual citation? 4pq1injbok (talk) 16:03, 14 December 2017 (UTC)