User talk:Dustsucker~enwiktionary

Welcome

(No one has added a welcome message to your talk page, even though you've been around for a long time ...?)

One of our sysops blocked you for the "suck" in the username, I've fixed that. He also reverted the edits to the kwukyel entries and asked me to check them. I have restored your edits.

We need to figure out exactly what format to use for these; the "meaning" of "kwukyel" is because someone two years ago stuck that in the "common meaning" field not knowing what else to do. We don't want headers that aren't English ("Hanja" is a stretch ;-)

I'll look at it some more. and thanks for your contributions Robert Ullmann 16:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that's very kind of you! I was unaware of being blocked until now. My username is a literal translation of Staubsauger.

I can see the problems concerning the few kwukyel characters that have made it into the Wiktionary. Unfortunately, we cannot ask the people who used them whether they were actually pronounced or merely used as marks, like equal signs and commas are used today. Hence, I wouldn't know to what extent they qualify as vocabulary.

I notice you keep a bot. Perhaps we can use that to correct the numerous Korean Yale mistakes where a y is in the wrong place.

Thank you for your CJKV templates, kwukyel re-reverts and of course for unblocking me! --Ds 2006-11-07

Thanks. there are also a significant number of kwukyel that are characters, not just the marks. I believe there are contemporary (i.e. ~15th century) records discussing the pronunciation; but I have no direct knowledge. Can you tell me what is wrong with the Yale more specifically? I wasn't previously aware of that, except that we do know various romanizations in these entries have problems. (I'm not familiar with Korean Yale; even Yale doesn't use it any more; most use SK revised.) Robert Ullmann 14:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The line under "Han character" (which is used because it is part of "Unified Han") has to be a # definition line. We have software that checks for definitions for each language level section in each entry. And it is a "definition", even if not a "meaning" ;-). We put these marks under Korean because they aren't Chinese ... Robert Ullmann 15:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure you know more about kwukyel than I do. I took a course years ago when I didn't know any Chinese characters and lacked all background knowledge on writing in Korea.

As to the Yale problem The y follows the vowel where it should precede it ([1], [2]) and vice versa ([3], [4], [5], [6], [7]). When the y is supposed to be on both sides, it does just that ([8], [9]).

I know Yale isn't and shouldn't be used much in a non-linguistic context, but if used correctly, it conveys some information that SK revised, McC-Rsr and IPA don't: orthography (for users without hangeul fonts), etymology, declension, and pronunciation (w:sokuon-style q to mark reinforcement of the following consonant as in halq kes, halq il; w:macron denoting vowel length in 20th century pronunciation) all in a single form &ndash great when there's no space for explanations, for example in those yellow boxes with a word's translations. It can even be used to write Middle Korean, for which there is no flawless Unicode font I know of. The big problem is that there was no complete documentation on the www as of early 2006. Dustsucker 16:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean they are consistently (always) wrong? (I haven't really looked closely.) Robert Ullmann 16:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid they are. It appears Nanshubot is responsible for this (compare correct mayng at unicode.org with incorrect myang at en.wiktionary.org). I haven't checked before/after every possible vowel. Dustsucker 16:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

(left margin again if you don't mind) From everything I can find, Nanshu was copying the kKorean field. But that was from the then-current version of the DB. I haven't found any indication that this field was fixed later? (But then Nanshu did a bunch of strange stuff.) The only way I can see to fix this is to compare again; this has to be a separate task. Robert Ullmann 16:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems I wasn't alone in occasionally adding or correcting Yale, so the relatively small number of correct entries would have to be either reverted or spared by a bot. Dustsucker 17:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

showing what the hanja looks like

As in 書. Could you please not do this?! When my 'bot gets to the entry it will add in {{ko-hanja}} which does this, but with your change it can't understand the format, and will skip Korean in that entry!

So please don't! :-) Robert Ullmann 02:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I hope that doesn't sound negative at all, we've just already got this covered. Robert Ullmann 04:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, I somehow expected it might make things harder for an eventual bot cleanup, but put it in nevertheless. Sorry about that. I am not going to make any similar additions or format changes to Han character entries from now on.

Korean Yale

Hi! I think I have Python code that identifies the incorrect ones. Turns out not to be too hard, the MR is right next to it!

There are 457+ entries that are wrong (as of the 3 November XML dump). The reports at User:Robert Ullmann/Han mention the error when the code picks it up. They seem accurate, in the cases I had coded when that was run. (There are more.) When the code is good, I have it wrapped in a 'bot that can fix the entries ... Robert Ullmann 21:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Happy to learn that. Dustsucker 23:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

There are 995 or 1007 ;-) Missed some because of a bug, and some more because I missed a case. Seems to affect only ay/ya and ey/ye, not combinations with o and u, which all seem to check out. Looking for the remaining 12 instances ... Robert Ullmann 23:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I found the 12 exceptions. Look at 灑. How did Nanshu get one right and one wrong in the same entry?! Some will get fixed properly by the code if run, which leaves a few I'll just fix by hand. Robert Ullmann 00:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC) Nope, code got 'em all now. We'll just have to check it some more before we run it. Robert Ullmann 01:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW, somebody should decide which format to use:

Sinogram	isolated or word-initial (South Korea)	else	Wiktionary's fool-proof aberration	if abiding by actual Yale rules
料	요	료	lyo>yo	lyo
尿	요	뇨 Yanbian: 요?	nyo>yo	nyo
勞	노	로	lo>no	lno

There is also the question whether we should stick by the Yale rules and indicate vowel length. Many hanja usually had long vowels in 20th century standard pronunciation, so if we were to use Yale, we'd have to use macrons: 願 wēn, 四 sā. I suppose vowel length was lost in personal names, at least Martin 1992 never indicates length in those. If we choose not to indicate it, users should be aware that possible vowel length is not indicated. Dustsucker 23:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's of any use, proper names (e.g. 량강도) should only have their first South Korean letter capitalised, not the superscript. Dustsucker 23:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Eumhun

Um, I know the correct spelling ... it worked when I coded them. Must have then fixed the bot and somehow not managed to fix the template? *sigh* Robert Ullmann 23:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I had no clue how much you know about Korean romanisation (your Babel template doesn't say), so I thought more information wouldn't hurt :) Dustsucker 23:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

More information never hurts. And someone else looking at things helps a lot. (I wrote ichiban conjugation in one template, and cringed when Tohru found it for me, but I was very grateful.) Robert Ullmann 00:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for that link. Would you happen to know a way to get a stable URL for specific 표준국어대사전 entries? I would really prefer to link directly to the source, for obvious reasons (not least of them being Naver's notorious incompatibility with Firefox). However, the good folks at korean.go.kr seem to have configured their site so as to make that rather difficult. At any rate, hope to see you around; look forward to hashing out issues of romanization and whatnot with you. Cheers, -- Visviva 08:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid links are only stable for the search results pages, so those could be used when there is no homograph. Dustsucker 04:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed

Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Dustsucker. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Dustsucker~enwiktionary that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours,
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation

23:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed

This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: Special:GlobalRenameRequest. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk)

07:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)