Talk:brass

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The word "brass" has a meaning used in India, especially in the building and construction trade.

It is used as a measure of quantity for loose material (like sand, metal, etc).

It equals one hundred cubic feet volume, (e.g. a cart with load bed of 8' x 5' size, when loaded with sand which levels 2.5' high, the quantity is (8 x 5 x 2.5 / 100 =) 1 brass.

It is also used as a measure of surface area of 100 square feet, as used by painters, masons, etc, for quoting or billing purposes.

removed senses and translations[edit]

The following senses were removed from the entry as RFV-failed, or were modified too significantly to keep their translations. - -sche (discuss) 20:59, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Adjective: made of the metal brass[edit]

  1. (not comparable) Made of brass.

Translations[edit]

Adjective: relating to brass instruments[edit]

  1. Relating to brass instruments.

Translations[edit]

RFV[edit]

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brass

Rfv-sense X 3:

  1. Made of brass.
  2. [not challenged] of the colour of brass.
  3. (UK slang) Bad, annoying.
  4. Related to brass instruments.

Sense 1 and Sense 4 seem to be attributive use of the noun. I am just unfamiliar with the UK slang sense. DCDuring TALK 19:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

#1 is not just attributive. Though we're reaching the point where WT:GLOSS needs to define attributive as "adjective-like, without being an adjective". —RuakhTALK 19:54, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
We've probably passed that point. DCDuring TALK 21:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
*sigh* Yes check.svg DoneRuakhTALK 21:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure that I understand your point. For sense 1, in the uses "That nozzle is brass" and "That is the brass nozzle.", both uses seem more easily interpreted be of the noun than of an adjective. It is most convincing to me that a word is a true adjective when it can be modified by "more" (with "than"), "too", or "very", has a meaning shift. Use following "seem", "become", and "make" doesn't seem to discriminate between mass nouns like brass and possible adjectives like brass. "Brass" fails the "enough" test also, I think: "The nozzle is brass enough to meet the spec." doesn't seem right, in contrast to "The nozzle is corrosion-resistant enough to meet spec." DCDuring TALK 23:39, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
My point is not about the word brass, but about the word attributive, which is a useful technical term with a specific relevant meaning. I think we should try to use it accurately, rather than brandishing it like a fetish whenever we want to say that a noun isn't also an adjective. I don't see how we can have a meaningful discussion about whether a given cite demonstrates adjective-ness without recourse to the real meanings of words like "attributive" and "adjective". For some reason you're very punctilious about the latter, but very libertine about the former. —RuakhTALK 01:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Which use of the word "attributive"? I don't think that uses of "brass" in most senses where "brass" is predicate are uses of an adjective; I believe they are uses of the noun. Therefore I believe that purported uses of "brass" semantically like sense 1 are all uses of the noun. Our code for this kind of thing focuses on the common attributive use of a word whose syntactic class is in question. Do you have an alternative shorthand tag for this? DCDuring TALK 03:42, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Re: "Which use of the word 'attributive'?": You wrote that "Sense 1 and Sense 4 seem to be attributive use of the noun" (emphasis mine). Hence my reply that sense 1 is not just attributive.
Re: "Do you have an alternative shorthand tag for this?": Well, despite what I wrote at WT:GLOSS#A, I'm not actually 100% sure exactly what you mean by the word "attributive". In this case you could have just said "Sense 1 and Sense 4 seem to be use of the noun", but presumably you included the word "attributive" because there was something you meant to convey with it. Maybe "Sense 1 and Sense 4 seem to be adjective-like use of the noun"? Or "Sense 1 and Sense 4 seem to be adjective-like,-not-adjective use of the noun"? (In the latter case, I suppose we could call it "ALNA".)
That said, it might be a bit premature to be resorting to "code" and "shorthand" regardless, given that different words have different considerations, and I imagine that most editors are not very clear yet on what those considerations are. For example, if we started seeing cites like "the door is car" and "the door became car" and so on, that would be good evidence that car as in "car door" has become an adjective for some people; but cites like "the door is brass" and "the door became brass" and so on are not. Why? Because the relevant sense of "car" is countable and the relevant sense of "brass" is not. This is fairly easy to understand and fairly easy to explain — provided we actually bother to explain it, rather than hiding like hermit crabs inside our unintelligible shorthand.
RuakhTALK 12:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, I have been crabby here, but how did you know I was an hermit?
re: "attributive". I have inferred from the entries that seem to have PoS sections for both nouns and adjectives that contributors ascribe adjectivity to those words if they occur in pre-head position in a noun phrase. That is the "attributive" position for adjectives. Nouns can also occur in that position, usually in "attributive use" (but sometimes as a complement of the head per CGEL). ("Attributive use of noun(s)