Talk:am Ende
Latest comment: 11 years ago by Spinningspark in topic am Ende
Deletion discussion
[edit]
The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process.
It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.
There is one idiomatic sense in here, IIRC. This one isn't it however, it just means am + Ende. -- Liliana • 19:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- I can kind of see how "in the end" and "down the road" could be sort of synonymous, and it might carry over into the German equivalent of "in the end" as a minor sense, but as the only definition for am Ende, this is so useless that it may very well justify speedy deletion. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- Doesn't "Ich bin am Ende" mean "I'm exhausted, I'm worn out, I'm all in"? Certainly that sense is idiomatic, I think. "Down the road" really doesn't seem like an adequate translation of "am Ende" at all. —Angr 21:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, that was the "idiomatic sense" I thought of. -- Liliana • 21:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- Doesn't "Ich bin am Ende" mean "I'm exhausted, I'm worn out, I'm all in"? Certainly that sense is idiomatic, I think. "Down the road" really doesn't seem like an adequate translation of "am Ende" at all. —Angr 21:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- We currently have the English in the end as an entry, which seems equally SOP as am Ende. Smurrayinchester (talk) 14:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- Literally am Ende means in the end, but the meaning given is down the road which is subtly different from SOP, that is "later on" rather than "at the end". One cannot deduce that this is a time phrase from its parts, nor that it does not necessarily refer to the true end. Liliana hints that there may be an idiomatic meaning. According to my German-English dictionary that meaning is "perhaps". In which case we should keep the entry and add that sense. There are also several idiomatic phrases incorporating am Ende. For instance am Ende der Welt (literally, "at the end of the world") means "in the middle of nowhere", and am Ende sein (literally means "at one's end") but does not mean (as might be deduced from SOP) "near one's death", or even "at one's buttocks", but rather "to be at the end of one's tether". SpinningSpark 16:56, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- The definition is wrong, it certainly does not mean down the road. It means precisely what it says, am + Ende. -- Liliana • 17:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- ...but do you agree that "perhaps" is an idiomatic meaning? SpinningSpark 17:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Since when does am Ende mean "perhaps"? Are there any cites to back this? -- Liliana • 17:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- At the moment, only my dictionary (Collins), which is why I asked you the question rather than just putting it in. I cannot think how to construct a google search to find possible cites, other than to look for a co-located English translation. SpinningSpark 18:07, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Well I should know German given I'm a native speaker and I'm absolutely not familiar with this meaning. -- Liliana • 18:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- At the moment, only my dictionary (Collins), which is why I asked you the question rather than just putting it in. I cannot think how to construct a google search to find possible cites, other than to look for a co-located English translation. SpinningSpark 18:07, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Since when does am Ende mean "perhaps"? Are there any cites to back this? -- Liliana • 17:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- ...but do you agree that "perhaps" is an idiomatic meaning? SpinningSpark 17:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- The definition is wrong, it certainly does not mean down the road. It means precisely what it says, am + Ende. -- Liliana • 17:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
I see a good deal of discussion, but not a lot of resolution. If the discussion has run its course, I would close this now as a lack of consensus to delete. bd2412 T 01:53, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- It should be moved to RFV as there is still no proof that this specific sense exists at all. -- Liliana • 06:11, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Nah, just delete it, don't clog RFV with it. No-one has argued for keeping it, and everyone in this discussion who speaks German has agreed that it's bogus. (I add my voice to that chorus.) - -sche (discuss) 18:21, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Doesn't deletion require a consensus favoring deletion? I would interpret Angr and SpinningSpark to be commenting in favor of keeping this (or at least raising verifiability questions). bd2412 T 18:30, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- I think there is a consensus favouring deletion. To be precise, there is a majority favouring deletion of the portion of the entry which Liliana requested the deletion of, namely the only sense currently in the entry, "down the road" (and because sense-less entries are not often kept, the whole entry pending the addition of a valid, idiomatic sense). It is typically left implicit, but Liliana's initial post happens to have made explicit, that the RFD pertained to the entry as it stood at the time the RFD was made. The entry happens to have not changed since that time. If someone wants to add a sense the entry currently lacks, they cannot sensibly be described as wanting to keep the entry as it stood at the time the request was made. Angr wrote "'Down the road' really doesn't seem like an adequate translation of 'am Ende' at all." I read that as agreeing with the RFD. SpinningSpark seems to have misunderstood both the RFD and the German term, thanks to a dictionary which seems to have used this collocation as a nihilartikel of sorts by giving it the bogus translation "perhaps". Chuck thought the entry "so useless that it may very well justify speedy deletion", and Liliana and I favour deletion of the entry as it stands, and possible re-creation with different + accurate content. - -sche (discuss) 19:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- What he said, but not so eloquent. SpinningSpark 19:29, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- I think there is a consensus favouring deletion. To be precise, there is a majority favouring deletion of the portion of the entry which Liliana requested the deletion of, namely the only sense currently in the entry, "down the road" (and because sense-less entries are not often kept, the whole entry pending the addition of a valid, idiomatic sense). It is typically left implicit, but Liliana's initial post happens to have made explicit, that the RFD pertained to the entry as it stood at the time the RFD was made. The entry happens to have not changed since that time. If someone wants to add a sense the entry currently lacks, they cannot sensibly be described as wanting to keep the entry as it stood at the time the request was made. Angr wrote "'Down the road' really doesn't seem like an adequate translation of 'am Ende' at all." I read that as agreeing with the RFD. SpinningSpark seems to have misunderstood both the RFD and the German term, thanks to a dictionary which seems to have used this collocation as a nihilartikel of sorts by giving it the bogus translation "perhaps". Chuck thought the entry "so useless that it may very well justify speedy deletion", and Liliana and I favour deletion of the entry as it stands, and possible re-creation with different + accurate content. - -sche (discuss) 19:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Doesn't deletion require a consensus favoring deletion? I would interpret Angr and SpinningSpark to be commenting in favor of keeping this (or at least raising verifiability questions). bd2412 T 18:30, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Nah, just delete it, don't clog RFV with it. No-one has argued for keeping it, and everyone in this discussion who speaks German has agreed that it's bogus. (I add my voice to that chorus.) - -sche (discuss) 18:21, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Very well then. Deleted without prejudice against future creation of an entry on this term for a different sense, if idiomatic and preferably cited. bd2412 T 19:22, 1 August 2013 (UTC)