Talk:breath sounds

RFD discussion

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breath sounds

Sum of parts. Should be singular. SemperBlotto 07:04, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:40, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

keep. Almost all the quotes I can find are related to medicine. Not much use of it outside the medical sphere. --Robert Hunt 10:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

That's not necessarily a reason, is it? I mean as long as you can look up breath and sound and have the appropriate meanings, this isn't needed. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:04, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Delete. Another case of covering up an obvious sum-of-parts by using fancy descriptions in the definition (auscultation). It's only the sounds of breath. Equinox ◑ 14:51, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

keep this is a medical term used heavily, look in any emt, paramedic, or nursing book.Gtroy 18:29, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Delete per Equinox. - -sche (discuss) 21:10, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Our definition says these sounds can be found using auscultation only. Is that true: that (in the {{medicine}} context) breath sounds cannot mean sounds of the breath heard from without the body? If so, keep.​—msh210℠ (talk) 03:50, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Auscultation just says "usually using a stethoscope", it doesn't say that such sounds cannot be heard without one. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:33, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Breath sounds certainly can sometimes be heard from outside the body. Stridor, for example, can often be heard from several feet away, and is still considered a "breath sound". (Of course, listening for breath sounds involves auscultation — you can't just stand several feet away and say that you listened for stridor ;-) — but "breath sounds" itself covers all such sounds.) —Ruakh_TALK 16:42, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Delete.​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Only stridor and wheezing can be heard without a stethoscopeGtroy 21:06, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't a wine glass serve the same purpose in a quiet environment? Anyway, breath sound as a sum of parts (or as a "pseudo-term") is not restricted to stethoscope monitoring. A microphone and amplifier would serve the same purpose in a noisy environment (though doctors don't usually carry these). Dbfirs 16:04, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 07:29, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

lung sounds

As above? - -sche (discuss) 22:39, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I'd say delete this... sounds made by the lungs. — [Ric Laurent] — 20:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

RFD 2012

The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process.

It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.

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breath sounds

Previously failed RFD. Readded by Lucifer (who originally created the failed one) with three citations. I still think that these are the sounds of breath i.e. NISoP. Equinox ◑ 01:24, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Checking your breath by blowing into your hand and smelling it would be a sound of breath, but it is not a breath sound as it is not part of a set medical test.Lucifer (talk) 19:26, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Keep, No they are not, they are A component of vital signs used to auscultate for the presence and equality of normal, rales, stridor, wheezing, or rhonchi sounds of a patient's respiratory system from their lung fields. For example there presence of paradoxical breath sounds is not a sound at all but it is a component of the breath sounds portions of vital signs.Lucifer (talk) 01:29, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Whistling is a sound of the breath, but it is not a breath sound. Coughing is a sound of the breath as well, so is sneezing, burping, talking, singing, humming, and laughing. Breath sounds are a very specific sign that has a very specific meaning in the medical field. Not all sounds a human can make using his respiratory system would be a breath sound that I would chart. i.e. SUPERVISOR: How is John Doe doing and how are his breath sounds? EMT: He is doing well, in fact he is humming a gospel song, but for breath sounds he is still wheezing.Lucifer (talk) 01:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

weak delete: It's clearly a SoP, but it may have some recognition as a set phrase of bad medical jargon of the variety which tends to confuse health practitioners. (e.g. some of the sounds are related to the act of breathing - crackles and pops - rather than the breath itself.) - Amgine/ ^t·e 04:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not bad medical jargon, it is proper medical terminology, it is used in every medical book, there is a coordinate wikipedia article at wikipedia:respiratory sounds. Lucifer (talk) 19:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment. If this is a technical term in the medical field used to indicate a set of narrowly-defined diagnostic criteria, as opposed to just "sounds associated with breathing", then I think that might be an argument in favour of its inclusion, as I think that "all words in all languages" should include technical terminology with which the average reader may be unfamiliar. Astral (talk) 05:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Luciferwildcat, that's not the definition so much as one way that breath sounds can be used. I've pointed out in juggling that blind catch could be considered a technical term, but it's any catch that's blind (blind#Adverb). The question is, if someone with or without any medical knowledge can work it out from the two words, we don't need it. We are a dictionary as opposed to a comprehensive list of all the sequences of words that can be used in coherent English. Delete, in fact speedy delete is ok with me as re-entered after failing a recent RFD. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:15, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

If it is just one way it is used, what other ways is it used as? And all idiomatic two word terms could also mean something else as a sum of partsLucifer (talk) 19:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Why is this even here? It already passed an RFD. Speedily delete.​—msh210℠ (talk) 01:49, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Because I found the proper citations and readded it in good faith.Lucifer (talk) 19:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Citations aren't the issue here, nobody's denying its existence, only its validity. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Deleted.​—msh210℠ (talk) 15:24, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Please keep. Listen to these: (1), (2), (3). What do you hear?

Most of us will hear breath sounds: just sounds, produced by breathing (SoP). But a trained health care professional will hear breath sounds (not SoP): he will hear a specific pattern, which has a specific name: 1 = "pleural rub", 2 = "fine crackles", 3 = "wheeze". These are three types of breath sounds (there are more). Each one of the different types of breath sounds has its own characteristic pattern, has its own medically defined diagnostic criteria, and has its own name. -- Curious (talk) 20:10, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I think the obvious question is, what's your point? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:24, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

He just proved you wrong.Lucifer (talk) 05:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I believe this could be compared to big cat (Talk:big cat):

• Keep, a big cat is not just any cat that is big, it refers to a particular grouping of feline species.
  • Breath sounds are not just any sounds produced by breathing, it refers to a particular grouping of strictly defined medical terms.
• Keep. The comic character Garfield's a [[big]] [[cat]], but not a [[big cat]].
  • Sigh, pant, puff, gasp are [[breath]] [[sounds]], but not [[breath sounds]].

To make things more complicated, there are actually 2 non-SoP medical meanings of breath sounds. One meaning is used as a synonym of respiratory sounds or lung sounds. The other meaning includes only a subset of the first meaning, including only those terms that are associated with breathing itself (like "vesicular sounds"), but excluding the terms that indicate additional sounds in the respiratory tract (like "fine crackles"). -- Curious (talk) 12:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)