Talk:reptilian

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reptilian[edit]

Rfd-redundant: sense 3 is the same as sense 1. Sense 2 is quite similar as well.... —Internoob 00:17, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd say that there are at least two senses of reptilian bound up in those definitions. One pertains to reptiles themselves: "a reptilian organism", "reptilian egg"; a second sense refers to similarity with reptile characteristics: "Early ancestors of mammals had a reptilian walk," or "His reptilian stare unnerved me." --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Sense 3 is definitely redundant, so delete. Maybe sense 1 could go too. I'd say "Early ancestors of mammals had a reptilian walk" is also sense 2, and "His reptilian stare unnerved me." seems more like sense 4. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 01:39, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I would argue that reptilian walk is actually idiomatic, because it refers to a gait that results from having the legs at the side of the body rather than the bottom, much like reptiles do. —CodeCat 02:01, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I think in this case, it would have been ok to skip the rfd and just merge #1 and #3. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Deleted. — Ungoliant (Falai) 04:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


Definition 2 of noun[edit]

Definition 2 of noun says ' One of a race of extraterrestrial shape-shifters purported to secretly control the world.' I think that is a mistaken definition. This is in reference to David Icke's use of the term reptilian, Peter Myers has told me 'I understand that phrase of David Icke's is metaphorical, not to be taken literally.' I don't think when Icke and others write about the world's leaders being reptilian they mean it literally, I think it is metaphorical. So I don't think that definition is appropriate because I don't think anyone literally believes reptiles rule the world. RandomScholar30 (talk) 02:02, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll create an RFV. Equinox 02:07, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

RFV discussion: December 2016–April 2017[edit]

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"(ufology) One of a race of extraterrestrial shape-shifters purported to secretly control the world." Questioned by a user at Talk:reptilian. Equinox 02:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I discussed this with an Australian journalist named Peter Myers years ago in the context of criticizing a source he used named Eustace Mullins who used the phrase. I argued that Mullins using the phrase suggested Mullins was not a reliable source and Myers replied "the reptilian part [of Mullins' writings] is metaphorical" and "I understand that phrase of David Icke's is metaphorical, not to be taken literally". I'm inclined to agree with Myers' interpretation, on reflection, I don't think anyone has ever argued the world is literally ruled by reptiles. RandomScholar30 (talk) 02:23, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Sometimes a metaphorical meaning deserves a dictionary sense, like pig = "greedy eater". I don't think greedy eaters are literally pigs. Equinox 02:26, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, we would have to change the current definition to reflect a metaphorical meaning, I think. The current definition appears to be literal. RandomScholar30 (talk) 02:30, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
I believe Icke's expression 'reptilian' is meant to describe political leaders as cunning, evil and duplicitous. It is similar to Hitler's description of Jews as 'parasites', in that it is intended as an offensive metaphor, not a literal statement of fact. So it should be defined in a way to show that its meaning is metaphorical rather than literal. RandomScholar30 (talk) 04:44, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter what Icke meant. The originator of a term doesn't own it once it becomes part of the language, and it means what the people who use it mean when they use it. If you search on the plural to weed out the adjectival uses, there seems to be enough usage that reflects the current definition. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:11, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
FWIW, I’ve spoken with a decent number of people who have argued exactly this (that »the world is literally ruled by reptiles«). Whatever Icke meant, others have subsequently latched onto the literal interpretation. —Vorziblix (talk) 18:21, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
Its clearly sometimes used metaphorically though. For example David Duke once said "Yet, in the end it should be clear that Michael Hart was the one who chose to make a disruption in a reptilian response to my rather mild question. "[1] I'm pretty sure Duke was not saying Hart was literally a reptile. Duke's use of the term relates to Icke's, I think, because Icke's work has highly Anti-Semitic themes, so that was the basis of Duke using the term. I think both Icke and Duke meant it as a derogatory term with at least partly Anti-Semitic tones, similar to Hitler's use of the term 'parasite'. It is meant to describe world political elites as cunning, evil and duplicitous. So perhaps a metaphorical definition should be added after the literal one. RandomScholar30 (talk) 12:30, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Ignoring the question of whether it is literal or metaphoric, it is pretty easy to cite (I have added the requisite three), although in this sense it usually appears capitalized. Kiwima (talk) 17:16, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 00:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)