Talk:sınalgı

Early discussion

This word is used by some Turkish speakers (you can search by any search engine and see the results). It is listed also in some other dictionaries. (for example http://ingilizce.g3n.in/index.php?soz=television) --85.102.140.81 16:16, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

That dictionary is full of invented words. Google shows mentions, not uses. Google books gives no results. -- Curious (talk) 18:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Some other dictionaries (such as TurEng) contain this word. --88.238.132.15 22:09, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Archived from RFV: March 2013

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

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sınalgı

- -sche (discuss) 16:57, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I think someone may come here and write "every single Google search result was written by our IP user, he is a spammer bla bla". Can you delete that entry without waiting for this? --88.238.184.199 01:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

There is 1 Google Books result, some dictionaries (which are not open ones) contain this word (e.g. TurEng and Gurafe), there are some forum posts dated 2011 contain this word (that means, it has been being used for more than 1 year). --85.102.151.232 00:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Citations. You need 3 for Turkish.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Some Google search results:

Çağalar ma sınalgı: The infants and the television (10/27/2011)
Uyduyu sınalgı yerine monitöre bağlamak mümkün mü? Is it possible to connect the satellite to a monitor instead of a television? (10/24/2011)
Sınalgı hırsızlığına gözaltı Custody for stealing television. (10/28/2011)
Sınalgı (TV) kartı olmadan video Video without TV card (10/24/2011)
Lifeview TVR Sınalgı programı (Türkçe yama) Lifeview TVR Television programme (Turkish patch) See the screenshot: [1]

All these forums and download websites have moderation. So, why the moderators (or admins) did not remove these topics? And many dictionaries contain this word (TurEng, kurgun, gurafe, g3n.in, e-okulum.org, and some others.) and these dictionaries are not open for editing like wiktionary. --85.102.182.123 11:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Interesting but not relevant. As you say those forums are moderate so not durably archived (it is possible to remove material) and dictionaries aren't primary sources. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Failed, zero citations provided. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:54, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

These books contain this word:
1-Prof. Dr. Mahmud Esad Coşan Külliyâtı. (author: Prof. Dr. Mahmud Esad Coşan)
2-Gökkonuksal Avrat: Türkçenin Türkçesi (author: Arslan Tekin)
3-Yazışmalık 2007-2012 (author: Gökbey Uluç)

I guess, this word was used by Prof. Dr. Ahmet Ercan for the first time in Turkey but with a different form = 'sanalgı'. You may find this form in some newspapers [2]. But the form 'sınalgı' may be found on the net more commonly. --Nɯ ʞoʎ ǝsɯıʞ (talk) 21:14, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Archived from RFV: November 2013

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

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sınalgı

sanalgı

sınalgı failed RFV a few months ago but has been recreated as an alternative form of sanalgı, which I would hazard a guess is the same kind of protologism, except that Citations:sanalgı exists. I can't tell if it has valid citations, though... input from Turkish speakers would be appreciated. Someone might also like to take a look at haydayıcı. - -sche (discuss) 03:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

The citations for sanalgı may be considered as valid citations since they are published on news-papers. --2A01:7E00:0:0:F03C:91FF:FEDB:20AA 10:35, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

"Kazakistan Türkçesinde gàlibâ ünalgı ve sınalgı diye kelimeler varmış." Prof. Dr. Esad Coşan Külliyâtı (this refers to a radio program which broadcasted in 30 July 1999 on Akra FM)

"Bakın Kırgızistan da televizyon yerine “sınalgı” telefon yerine ünalgı kullanılıyor." Gökkonutsal Avrat by Arslan Tekin.

Google Books search displays another result Kelimeler ve şeyler: insan bilimlerinin bir arkeolojisi by Michael Foucault but there is no preview. --88.251.43.88 20:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

As to haydayıcı
"Elinde uzun kamçı bulunan haydayıcı ön sıradaki atın kulağı dibinde kırbacını ..." İstanbul'da Tramvay - Tramvayların Tarihi by Fehime Tunalı Çalışkan and Zikrullah Kırmızı (1998)
"takırtıları, nal sesleri, kırbaç şaklamaları, haydayıcıların çığlıkları, emir erlerinin, askerlerin, subayların küfürleri geliyordu" Harp ve Sulh (L. Tolstoy's War and Peace volume: 1, translated by Zeki Baştımar and published by Turkish National Education Ministry)
There is a Google result from Cumhuriyet newspaper which published in 20 June 1939 (page: 8) and there is a crossword question as "hayvan haydayıcı". ----88.251.43.88 20:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Why sınalgı was deleted again? Who decided this? --88.251.29.98 11:25, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

You can read can't you? Why are you asking. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:38, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

But there are citations here and there is no comment. This place is not community-directed? --88.251.29.98 12:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I forgot about the rfv and deleted out of process. Someone had attempted to tag it for speedy deletion using the wrong template, both of the Google Books results that were visible looked like mentions, so I deleted it. It's not enough to have someone talking about using the Kirghiz word instead of the Turkish one- you have to show someone actually using the word as Turkish. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:35, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Bu tür sınalgı dizilerini izleyen bazı öğrenciler gördükleri şeylerden etkilenebiliyorlar. (User comment on Hürriyet News-paper Website [domain registered: 1996] 02-12-2013)

Aslında benim de dikkatimi çekiyor, sınalgı dizilerinde falan markaların üstleri kapatılırken bu sitelerin adları programlarda açıkça yazılıyor. (User comment on Sabah News-paper Website [domain registered: 1996] 03-12-2013)

Muhalif sınalgı kanalları da başbakanın bazı açıklamalarını veya Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu'na karşı yapılan protestoları göstermeyebiliyor. (User comment on Hakimiyet-i Milliye News-paper Website [domain registered: 2003] 10-1-2013)

Toplumsal Basın-Yayın, Kitle İletişim Araçları, Yeni Basın-Yayın, ünalgı (radyo) ve sınalgı (tv) eğitimi aldılar. Source İsmail Köseömer, "TÜMEP İzlencesi tam ivinti devam ediyor" HaberBG (a news website: 12-11-2013)

Since Sabah, Hürriyet and Hakimiyetimilliye news-papers' websites are aged enough they may be considered as valid citations. --2A01:7E00:0:0:F03C:91FF:FEDB:20AA 10:55, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

What's the deal with these two entries? They were deleted/restored multiple times. If deleting, there should be something in the talk pages. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There was nothing in the entry to indicate that it was being discussed in RFV, so the natural assumption would be that someone was improperly re-adding an entry that had failed rfv- deletion of which wouldn't require any documentation on the talk page. The entry was restored as soon as it was pointed out that it was being discussed in RFV. Now that it has an rfv template, that shouldn't happen again. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:47, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a sentence which is almost like an internet meme: İnternette takılmak varken siz hâlâ sınalgı mı izliyorsunuz? (900+ search results on Google) --88.251.14.102 19:30, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

If you use quotation marks ("İnternette takılmak varken siz hâlâ sınalgı mı izliyorsunuz?") there are more than 6800 results. Some websites contain this word (not in user comments) such as: Bu kanal numarasını kullanarak, yalnızca kanal listesinde konumlarından bağımsız sınalgı kanalları arasında geçiş yapmak amacıyla [...] and İki üç gün içerisinde gazete kitap okuyabilecek ve sınalgı izleyebilecek duruma gelirsiniz. There is also a poem which contains this word:

bir bahar akşamı rastgeldim ona
dokuza kadar sohbet ettik
sekiz yaşındaydık o zaman
saman kağıdına mektup yazardım

yedi yıl geçti aradan
oradan taşındık kaybettim onu
altı üstü bir arkadaş

beşiktaş iskelesinin orada
dört saat düşünmeye daldım
üçkağıtçı biri gelip
iki bin lira istedi benden
neden deden benden bir beden
küçük giyerdi bilmem neden

eve gittim başladım sınalgı izlemeye
algılayamadığım şeyler vardı
o boyunda o kolye ne de dardı
durdu kitap kurdu kemirmedi kitabı --2001:A98:C060:80:B523:5CFF:6314:2E22 06:39, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

No need to provide long citations like this. I've heard now that Usenet quotations count as valid. Are there any in Usenet? "sınalgı" in Google only appears three times but only as a mention, not a use (Turkish has inflections, so it may appear in an inflected form, though). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:48, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I think, according to the attestation criteria, it is important that the citations are archived durably. The news-papers' websites above have been archived for over many years and they might be considered as valid citations. --2001:A98:C060:80:B523:5CFF:6314:2E22 09:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• I propose this RFV be closed as failed; if you agree, please do the closure in boldface etc. I searched for "eve gittim başladım sınalgı izlemeye" mentioned above and found it at http://turkcesivarken.com/yazismalik/index.php?topic=1178.255, which I do not believe is permanently recorded media. As per common practice, the only thing considered permanently recorded media are printed things (often found at Google Books) and Usenet, anyway. The would-be citations are also available at Citations:sınalgı and Citations:sanalgı, marked there as "not durably archived" per my assessment. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I share Dan's assessment and have deleted both entries as RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 18:52, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Citations

• (not durably archived) "Bakın Kırgızistan da televizyon yerine “sınalgı” telefon yerine ünalgı kullanılıyor." Gökkonutsal Avrat by Arslan Tekin. This citation is from Google Books and it is not durably archived? --88.251.163.12 13:30, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

There are results from Groups, and from an online dictionary of a university: [3]

There seem to be two citations of this word on Usenet now; I've typed them up at Citations:sınalgı. One is from March 2014 and the other is from September 2014, so the word still doesn't meet cFI yet even if both citations are valid because words need to have been in use for more than a year. - -sche (discuss) 02:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The author (Arslan Tekin) says: "Look at it, it is using sınalgı for television and ünalgı for telephone at Kyrgyzstan"

So, it is Kyrgyz. It isn't Turkish. --123snake45 (talk) 02:59, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

RFV discussion: May 2017–January 2019

This entry has survived Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Please do not re-nominate for verification without comprehensive reasons for doing so.

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sınalgı

After the last rfv process, there are new citations: two printed sources and some results from the GG. --88.251.61.115 08:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC

I found the first cited book, where the term is bolded in the original, and capitalized and immediately glossed "televizyon". I couldn't find a copy of the second work. One of the citations (from özgür milliyetçiler) is not actually from Usenet, but a less durably-archived Google Group. The term seems to be rare, possibly nonstandard, and would need labels to that effect. - -sche (discuss) 17:29, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

@Anylai, Djkcel, could you look over the citations at Citations:sınalgı and translate them? Does "sınalgı" seem to mean "television" in them? (Maybe you are already familiar with this, but) Wiktionary has a long-running issue where some people promote "more Turkic" neologisms for things that are normally referred to using loanwords. Sometimes, the neologisms are not attested; sometimes, they are but they're rare; sometimes, the citations offered turn out to be written in dialects (which would merit a {{label}}) or even not in Turkish but in Azeri. - -sche (discuss) 17:34, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello, the March 25 2014 citation is apparently copied from, here, (March 24), it is obvious looking at the title and citation dates. But the original article does not contain "sınalgı". Plus, the sentence is broken, honestly I am not sure if it is written by a Turkish person, he did a bad job. One thing to note, we again see çınca in the sense of electrics, electronics or whatever. This word which i noticed in the failed rfv process of çıngı is an interesting one and it can not be a coincidence.

I cannot understand a lot of words in 2014 September 23 citation, namely "arna", "bağdarlama". (from "soc.culture.turkish")

2014 March 5 citation is again from "soc.culture.turkish", i dont know what this source is.

2016-7, Hani Astolin, Tanrı'nın Göksel Çocukları →ISBN is very poorly written, I found the page in googlebooks indeed, but lots of made up terms there. Let me write down those: tak, soykök, alaf, ünalgı, ışıksun, efil, efilem, kam, tol, tap, kızıklan-. There are 11 words, 12 with sınalgı, that i do not understand, some have explanation within paranthesis. This is not usual, as a non native speaker of english, i dont even find such unheard words in a page of a book written in english. The page is saying something but i can not get it, sorry.

The word overall looks to be a recent attempt to replace televizyon, but the citations are poor and attested in controversial media. We could accept it as a loan from Kyrgyz сыналгы (sınalgı, “television”) if attested legitly, but as i said citations are very poor which again seems to be arranged by a group of people with little to almost no impact at all. --Anylai (talk) 21:56, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

@Anylai Thank you, that was a very helpful, informative comment!
"soc.culture.turkish" is a Usenet group. - -sche (discuss) 05:37, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

The 2014/03/25 citation is not copied from elsewhere. It is a reply to the copied news. --88.251.203.138 20:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response; I can't say that I've ever heard a TV referred to as a sınalgı. We just say televizyon or TV. I agree that the passages are poor, they look like they were run through Google Translator. Djkcel (talk) 23:21, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

• [G]örüntü, ses ve konuşmalarını aktarabilecekleri bir Sınalgı (televizyon) ve ünalgı(radyo) bir arada diyelim.

TDK GTS (Turkish Language Association's Up-to-date Turkish Dictionary) doesn't contain the words sınalgı and ünalgı in this sentence. Except the words sınalgı and ünalgı (which you may not know), the other words are in Turkish, so this sentence is certainly in Turkish. Since the writer used paranthesis in order to explain the meanings of both words, there is no doubt about their meanings.

• Bir tane bile Türk Okulu, Türk Bilimyurdu, Türk Ekin Ortayı, Türk Araştırma Ortayı, Ulusal Sınalgı ve Ünalgı Yayını olmayan topluma ne denir?

TDK GTS doesn't contain another more word bilimyurdu (university) in this sentence but you may find many citations by searching books (with different spellings such as "bilimyurdu", "bilim-yurdu" and "bilim yurdu"). There is no doubt this sentence is completely in Turkish, and sınalgı means 'television' and ünalgı means 'radio' in this sentence.

• Ayrıca sınalgı dizilerinde bizim toplumumuza uymayan şeylerin gösterildiğini de görebiliyoruz.

There is nothing strange in this sentence, TDK GTS contains all other words than the word sınalgı. --2001:A98:C060:80:70C6:D0C5:7891:C71C 12:30, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Theere's no such word called as "sınalgı" in Turkish language. You can't find this unusual word in any remarkable dictionary. It should be deleted.--94.54.22.66 16:25, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

You are wrong. There are cites. --78.190.184.89 19:51, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

I note that tr.Wikt has repeatedly deleted this entry on their site. This would appear to be attested as a very rare, very nonstandard, almost broken-Turkish word, but attested nonetheless. - -sche (discuss) 16:52, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

I guess Prof. Dr. Mahmud Esad Coşan was the first person who mentioned that the word sınalgı might be used in Turkish language. Later, Prof. Dr. Ahmet Ercan used this word as sanalgı. After them, Yavuz Gürler's article "Kırgız Türkçesinde Üç Güzel Sözcük" was published on Türk Dili journal (by official Turkish Language Association). Yavuz Gürler offered that three words from Kyrgyz language could be used in Turkish: sınalgı 'television', ünalgı 'radio' and kolçatır 'umbrella' [4]. So, it is not a fabricated word. --Wiamboo (talk) 00:08, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, it's attested, AFAICT, although it's got a label and a usage note warning people it's very rare and nonstandard. (So, RFV-passed AFAICT.) - -sche (discuss) 23:13, 5 January 2019 (UTC)